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Offline Lover of Truth

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Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
« on: September 15, 2017, 12:34:07 PM »
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  • From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    Quote
    Even when specifically approved by the pope, decrees of the Holy Office are not infallible. They call for a true assent, internal and sincere, but they do not impose an absolute assent, like the dogmatic definitions given by the pope as infallible teacher of the Faith.

    I maintain that the Holy Office letter demands a true internal and sincere assent by good Catholics.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 12:48:38 PM »
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  • In “The Church Teaches”, the first draft of Vatican I’ constitution on the Church mentions EENS and takes a very similar position to that in Suprema Haec Sacra. In fact, the draft of Vatican I’s constitution takes a less strict view even. Not that the draft has any sort of magisterial weight - it doesn’t - but it does show that the prevailing view even back then was NOT the Feeneyite view.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 12:52:22 PM »
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  • There are priests and bishops who believe as LoLies does, so why can't we just get the same jive with better spin from them if we wish?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 12:54:22 PM »
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  • From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    I maintain that the Holy Office letter demands a true internal and sincere assent by good Catholics.  
    Dude totally misses the point of that entry which was at best ambiguous.

    Wish I'd never posted it; I KNEW this LIAR would do this, and here we are.
    Mea culpa.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
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  • Yes, certainly it requires our assent. It is included in Denzinger.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 12:56:38 PM »
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  • From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

    I maintain that the Holy Office letter demands a true internal and sincere assent by good Catholics.  

    Nope.  It's not part of the authentic Magisterium.

    And, there are actual parts of the authentic Magisterium, e.g. "Allocution to Midwives", to which I give a true internal and sincere assent, but with which I respectfully disagree.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 12:57:37 PM »
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  • Yes, certainly it requires our assent. It is included in Denzinger.

    Denzinger is crap, edited by Karl Rahner, not an official Vatican Magisterial organ.  AAS, now, that's something different.  Rahner put SH in Denzinger precisely because it backs his modernist "Anonymous Christian" theology.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 12:58:27 PM »
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  • The document doesn’t get its authority from being published in Denzinger. It gets it from having been issued by the Holy Office, whose head is the Pope.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 12:59:03 PM »
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  • I'm sure that LoT's mind is spinning when I say that there are some documents to which I assent but with which I disagree.  That's because he doesn't know the meaning of the term religious assent.  LoT thinks that everything in the authentic Magisterium is infallible.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 12:59:28 PM »
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  • Denzinger was used throughout the Church and by the Holy Office, of course.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 12:59:52 PM »
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  • The document doesn’t get its authority from being published in Denzinger. It gets it from having been issued by the Holy Office, whose head is the Pope.

    Idiot.  You JUST said that we have to give it our assent because it's in Denzinger.


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 01:00:32 PM »
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  • Again the burden of proof is being unreasonably shifted. The letter came from the Holy Office to the Abp. of Boston. It was made public in 1953 and appeared in several periodicals. It was included in Denzinger. The document says His Holiness approved the doctrine set forth therein. The Pope is the head of the Holy Office. We have met our burden of proof. If anyone believes that Pius XII did NOT approve this, the burden of proof is now on him to prove it. Not on us.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 01:08:07 PM »
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  • Again the burden of proof is being unreasonably shifted. The letter came from the Holy Office to the Abp. of Boston. It was made public in 1953 and appeared in several periodicals. It was included in Denzinger. The document says His Holiness approved the doctrine set forth therein. The Pope is the head of the Holy Office. We have met our burden of proof. If anyone believes that Pius XII did NOT approve this, the burden of proof is now on him to prove it. Not on us.

    No, you haven't met anything.  It must appear in AAS to be surely authentic from the Vatican.  It's precisely to prevent potential fraud that this stipulation was put into Canon Law.  There's no proof that the letter published by Cushing, the sworn enemy of Father Feeney and of EENS, a manifest heretic by YOUR definition, LoT, hasn't been edited or altered somehow.  It was allegedly written in 1949 and only made public 4 years later, conveniently AFTER the man who had allegedly written had passed away.  There's sufficient evidence to create positive doubt about its authenticity.  Its appearance in AAS would have completely dispelled all doubt, but, quite strangely for a document intended to teach the Church, it doesn't appear there.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 01:09:23 PM »
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  • We have absolutely nothing to go on except for Cushing's word.  Pardon me if that doesn't really do it for me.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Good Catholics Give Assent to Authoritative Documents
    « Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 01:10:25 PM »
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  • It’s an official letter from the secretary of the Holy Office, in that very capacity. The Pope doesn’t need to sign it. There are a lot of things the Pope doesn’t sign. For example, the Syllabys of Modernist Errors (Lamentabili Sane) was not signed by Pope Pius X either.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

     

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