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Author Topic: God provides: Stories of God providing deathbed Baptism of water  (Read 862 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: God provides: Stories of God providing deathbed Baptism of water
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2026, 06:57:07 PM »
>Baptism of Water EXISTS for deathbed!
>Therefore Baptism of Desire DOESN'T EXIST!!
Come on. The logic is so poor. :facepalm:



OP actually laid out the point, which you distort because ... you can't understand it or you don't care for EENS dogma.
Quote
This is another example vindicating Fr. Feeney (RIP):

"There is no one about to die in the state of justification whom God cannot secure Baptism for, and indeed, Baptism of Water. The schemes concerning salvation, I leave to the sceptics. The clear truths of salvation, I am preaching to you."

Since you evidently needed just a little help understanding the point.

So, these are examples of where God provided Baptism "against all odds" and even miraculously, to reinforce the point that God cannot be thwarted by any kind of "impossibility".

Also, the fact that God went to such great lengths to provide Baptism for those who by most account should have been saved by BoD anyway reinforces its absolute necessity.

So the point is, if God does not NEED to provide a "Baptism of Desire" to save His elect, they why would He will for some to be saved by it?

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: God provides: Stories of God providing deathbed Baptism of water
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2026, 05:19:30 AM »
BODers keeps proving that the idea of a BOD is the only "doctrine" in all of Church history where you have got to remove God and His Providence entirely from the whole BOD formula in order for it to work. 

Even BODers admit (at least one of them - banned poster Lazarus admitted it) that the only way a BOD works is when God's Providence is completely taken out of the formula, which is to say that with the divine providence, a BOD fails, without it, it works.

With the Divine Providence, God fulfills the desire by providing the sacrament. Without God's providence, it is as St. Alphonsus says: the person's faith alone saves him - this idea is entirely protestant and condemned by the Church.

The "doctrine" of a BOD is in the running to be among the dumbest doctrines ever invented by man.


Offline Boomerang

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Re: God provides: Stories of God providing deathbed Baptism of water
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2026, 11:48:46 PM »
St. Francis Xavier, St. Peter Claver, Fr. De Smet, Ss. Isaac Jogues, Jean de Brébeuf, would be a good start. There are a number of stories of people being brought back to life in order to be baptized, and then immediately dying again. Or living just long enough to be baptized.
I have been thinking that an extensive study of missionaries (i.e. those actually "in the field", "foot soldiers") regarding the necessity of Baptism would be a valuable addition to the debate. Those men who interacted daily with potential BOD candidates, what did they think of the matter? Or did they think about it at all? No offense to the theologian authors of catechisms and manuals, but they mostly were not the ones traveling across the world in order to save the souls of the ignorant pagans

Anything I've read regarding prominent missionaries points to the fact that they simply believed that there was no salvation outside of the Church, and that the Sacrament of Baptism was necessary for salvation.
Thank you for the suggestions, I've already found examples from them, see below:


Quote
Saint among savages; the life of Isaac Jogues by Francis Talbot, S.J.
Section IV "Under the shadow of death", pg 84-85
https://archive.org/details/saintamongsavage0000talb

For the next few weeks the Blackrobes were regarded affably. They were welcomed in the cabins and allowed to minister and instruct the sick. But baptism they did not administer, except under certainty of death. On one occassion, Father Jogues found a savage named Sononresk favorably disposed and sufficiently instructed, who was gasping his last breath. All through the night the man kept repeating "Rihouiosta" (I believe). Ondessonk (St. Isaac Jogues) baptized him, and the man suddenly recovered. He announced that baptism cured him; the water that had been poured on his head by Ondessonk had flowed down through his throat, so that he felt no more pains. His rejoicing in this life was not for long, however, for he died the next day.


same reference, pg 86
As soon as Ihonatiria quieted, de Brebeuf and Jogues, with Maturin, on January 17, fared on another apostolic journey. The snows were wast deep. The trees of the forest were coated with ice crystals. They visited Wenrio, the first village that had accepted Echon's proposals a little more than a month before. Not one of the savages would tolerate any words from the Blackrobes. They went on to Angwiens, where they remained the night. The natives were hostile, but the missioners managed to baptize two dying children. They crunched through the banks and drifts of snow to Ossossane where, as they said, "they found the devil let loose."

same reference, pg 88
De Brebeuf and Jogues waited for the hysteria to pass. they had the consolation of baptizing a few souls and sending them to God. One was a squaw who had resisted all their attempts to talk to her until just before her end, when she begged to be baptized. Another was a young brave who eagerly wished for baptism, but whose relatives guarded him against the approach of Echon and Ondessonk. De Brebeuf waited until the relatives were absent from the cabin, then poured the saving waters on his head a moment before his mother-in-law returned to prevent him. As he related: "The Divine Goodness had prepared this moment for an act of mercy to this poor young man, doubtless through the merits of St. Joseph, who was invoked very especially on this occassion, as well as on the preceding one."


Offline Boomerang

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Quote
https://archive.org/details/saintamongsavage0000talb
 Saint among savages; the life of Isaac Jogues
by Francis Talbot, S.J.

pg89
Relief came also to the missioners. The threat of being murdered was not so often hurled at them. The duty of visiting the cabins and seeking out the sick in Ihontiria and the other villages was not so insistent. Despite the obstacles and the conflict, they had been successful enough in their ministrations to be satisfied. From October to the end of January they counted more than two hundred and fifty baptisms which they had administered to those about to die. That was a harvest of souls for Heaven.

pg90-91
His tongue itching to use the knowledge he was acquiring in the language for the service of God, Jogues made a round of nearby villages on April 23, under the tutelage of Le Mercier. The results were the persuasion of the parents to allow the baptism of four babies in danger of death. One continued to live, but as for the other three, Le Mercier writes: "What a favor from Heaven for these little angels, and what a consolation for us!" On May 12 Jogues and Garnier were deputed to go to Anonatea without any of the veterans. They poured the water on three persons desperately sick. The same two were companions, on May 28th, on a visit to an old man who lived in Arontaen, one of the hostile villages. The man, however, was not averse to listen to his nephews, Ondessonk and Ouracha. He found them insteresting and professed his willingness to go to heaven. After they had baptized him, he thanked his nephews, the Blackrobes, most cordially and affectionately.

pg 110
In the following week, on Ascension Thursday, May 13, he addressed a letter to his younger brother, Samuel, who had become a Capuchin:
In spite of the fire of persecution, the zeal of the missioners did not relax. They baptized more than 1,200 persons during the epidemic. And in that very village were they were most exposed, at the very height of the hate and ill-will of the inhabitants, there were always some who were desirous of following our instructions. I have regenerated about one hundred of these in the waters of baptism, amonth whom were twenty-two little children who are raised up in the Blood of the Lamb. But, as the entrance of the other villages has been closed to us, it was impossilbe for us to go and take care of them, so that we had the sorrow of seeing die, so to speak, under our very eyes, more than a hundred of the unhappy ones who called out in vain for our assistance.

pg 112
At Teanaustayae, Jogues witnessed a torture and a conversion that surpass anything human. A chief belonging to the Oneida nation of the Iroquois Confederacy, together with eleven warriors, was to be executed. The chief listened to the Blackrobes, Ondessonk and Echon, declared he wished to be baptized, and urged his followers to follow his lead. After the ordinary cruelties had been inflicted, just prior to the killings, the chief was baptized Peter. One by one, his companions, also baptized, succuмbed to the fire and knives.


Thank you for the suggestions, I've already found examples from them, see below:
Thanks for the references 

IIRC, I think it was with the NA Martyrs, converts dying soon after baptism was so common that some tribes actually thought that baptism was killing them..and that led them to persecuting the missionaries