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Author Topic: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants  (Read 304623 times)

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2022, 07:44:37 AM »
Some of the greatest saints had rosary in one hand and bible in the other.  And the clothes on their backs.  They owned nothing else.  

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2022, 10:54:13 AM »
In Reply #1 in this thread I posted the following quote:


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THE DEATH of an unbaptized infant presents Catholic theologians with a poignant problem. The dawn star of Christian culture had hardly risen when men first raised the question, and it has continued to echo through the centuries. There are reasons enough for the persistent reappearance of the difficulty. The fate of an unbaptized child is closely tied to several highly volatile questions: original sin, the necessity of baptism, the salvific will of God. Each of these issues is a vital nerve in the body of Catholic doctrine, and each can be studied with clinical precision in the person of an unbaptized child. The question, then, is not pure pedantry; and if it seems a discouraging one, we have the admonition of St. Gregory of Nyssa: "I venture to assert that it is not right to omit the examination which is within the range of our ability, or to leave the question here raised without making any inquiries or having any ideas about it."


(LIMBO: A THEOLOGICAL EVALUATION by GEORGE J. DYER, 1958)

The reason the "fate of an unbaptized infant" has such significance on questions of original sin, the necessity of baptism, and the salvific will of God is very simple: an infant can no nothing, can do no meritorious work, can make no claim or, better, take no action, by virtue of an exercise of free will regarding its eternal salvation. 

In the attached screen capture from the 1896 Catholic Dictionary entry on baptism (specifically its necessity), you see again language about the significance of the fate of unbaptized infants and the theological impacts of that issue on ultimate questions regarding grace and salvation: it notes that "Protestants difficulties on this point arise from inadequate ideas on grace and the sovereignty of God."

The link for the page is:   https://archive.org/details/TheCatholicDictionary/page/61/mode/2up




Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2022, 11:35:21 AM »
One of the main theses in this thread is the observation, akin to Fr. Feeney's observation about the erosion of EENS (and subsequently the doctrine of BOD), that an ever-increasing man-centeredness about the workings of grace and man's cooperative role in salvation, and consequent erosion of the traditional Augustinian-Thomistic doctrine, was one of the distinctives of that heresy of heresies, Modernism.

You can see the "development" here in the attached definitions of three Catholic dictionaries of the word, "predestination": the first definition from an 1896 Catholic Dictionary with an imprimatur from Cardinal Manning, the second from Attwater's Catholic Dictionary (first published in 1931), and the third from an appendix to the New American Bible called "Encyclopedic Dictionary" (2006-2007 edition).

Note the "large number of Jesuits" in parens (3) in the 1896 dictionary.

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2022, 08:39:34 AM »

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Pius XI, Studiorum Ducem (On St. Thomas Aquinas)

19. The other branch of Theology, which is concerned with the interpretation of dogmas, also found in St. Thomas by far the richest of all commentators; for nobody ever more profoundly penetrated or expounded with greater subtlety all the august mysteries, as, for example, the intimate life of God, the obscurity of eternal predestination, the supernatural government of the world, the faculty granted to rational creatures of attaining their end, the redemption of the human race achieved by Jesus Christ and continued by the Church and the sacraments, both of which the Angelic Doctor describes as "relics, so to speak, of the divine Incarnation."

Library : Studiorum Ducem (On St. Thomas Aquinas) | Catholic Culture

As noted here before, St. Thomas has a whole question with 8 articles in the Summa on Predestination - Part Ia, Question 23.

Here's excerpts posted in this thread previously:


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Part Ia, Q.23, a.4

Whether the predestined are chosen by God? [*"Eligantur."]

Objection 1: It seems that the predestined are not chosen by God. For Dionysius says (Div. Nom. iv, 1) that as the corporeal sun sends his rays upon all without selection, so does God His goodness. But the goodness of God is communicated to some in an especial manner through a participation of grace and glory. Therefore God without any selection communicates His grace and glory; and this belongs to predestination.

Objection 2: Further, election is of things that exist. But predestination from all eternity is also of things which do not exist. Therefore, some are predestined without election.

Objection 3: Further, election implies some discrimination. Now God "wills all men to be saved" (1 Tim. 2:4). Therefore, predestination which ordains men towards eternal salvation, is without election.

On the contrary, It is said (Eph. 1:4): "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world."

I answer that, Predestination presupposes election in the order of reason; and election presupposes love. The reason of this is that predestination, as stated above (A[1]), is a part of providence. Now providence, as also prudence, is the plan existing in the intellect directing the ordering of some things towards an end; as was proved above (Q[22], A[2]). But nothing is directed towards an end unless the will for that end already exists. Whence the predestination of some to eternal salvation presupposes, in the order of reason, that God wills their salvation; and to this belong both election and love:---love, inasmuch as He wills them this particular good of eternal salvation; since to love is to wish well to anyone, as stated above (Q[20], AA[2],3):---election, inasmuch as He wills this good to some in preference to others; since He reprobates some, as stated above (A[3]). Election and love, however, are differently ordered in God, and in ourselves: because in us the will in loving does not cause good, but we are incited to love by the good which already exists; and therefore we choose someone to love, and so election in us precedes love. In God, however, it is the reverse. For His will, by which in loving He wishes good to someone, is the cause of that good possessed by some in preference to others. Thus it is clear that love precedes election in the order of reason, and election precedes predestination. Whence all the predestinate are objects of election and love.

Reply to Objection 1: If the communication of the divine goodness in general be considered, God communicates His goodness without election; inasmuch as there is nothing which does not in some way share in His goodness, as we said above (Q[6], A[4]). But if we consider the communication of this or that particular good, He does not allot it without election; since He gives certain goods to some men, which He does not give to others. Thus in the conferring of grace and glory election is implied.

Reply to Objection 2: When the will of the person choosing is incited to make a choice by the good already pre-existing in the object chosen, the choice must needs be of those things which already exist, as happens in our choice. In God it is otherwise; as was said above (Q[20], A[2]). Thus, as Augustine says (De Verb. Ap. Serm. 11): "Those are chosen by God, who do not exist; yet He does not err in His choice."

Reply to Objection 3: God wills all men to be saved by His antecedent will, which is to will not simply but relatively; and not by His consequent will, which is to will simply.



Saint Thomas Aquinas. Summa Theologica - Enhanced Version . Christian Classics Ethereal Library. Kindle Edition.



Part Ia, Question 23, Article 5, Objection 3


Objection 3. Further, "There is no injustice in God" (Romans 9:14). Now it would seem unjust that unequal things be given to equals. But all men are equal as regards both nature and original sin; and inequality in them arises from the merits or demerits of their actions. Therefore God does not prepare unequal things for men by predestinating and reprobating, unless through the foreknowledge of their merits and demerits.



Reply to Objection 3.The reason for the predestination of some, and reprobation of others, must be sought for in the goodness of God. Thus He is said to have made all things through His goodness, so that the divine goodness might be represented in things. Now it is necessary that God's goodness, which in itself is one and undivided, should be manifested in many ways in His creation; because creatures in themselves cannot attain to the simplicity of God. Thus it is that for the completion of the universe there are required different grades of being; some of which hold a high and some a low place in the universe. That this multiformity of grades may be preserved in things, God allows some evils, lest many good things should never happen, as was said above (Question 22, Article 2). Let us then consider the whole of the human race, as we consider the whole universe. God wills to manifest His goodness in men; in respect to those whom He predestines, by means of His mercy, as sparing them; and in respect of others, whom he reprobates, by means of His justice, in punishing them. This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others. To this the Apostle refers, saying (Romans 9:22-23): "What if God, willing to show His wrath [that is, the vengeance of His justice], and to make His power known, endured [that is, permitted] with much patience vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction; that He might show the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He hath prepared unto glory" and (2 Timothy 2:20): "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver; but also of wood and of earth; and some, indeed, unto honor, but some unto dishonor." Yet why He chooses some for glory, and reprobates others, has no reason, except the divine will. Whence Augustine says (Tract. xxvi. in Joan.): "Why He draws one, and another He draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err." Thus too, in the things of nature, a reason can be assigned, since primary matter is altogether uniform, why one part of it was fashioned by God from the beginning under the form of fire, another under the form of earth, that there might be a diversity of species in things of nature. Yet why this particular part of matter is under this particular form, and that under another, depends upon the simple will of God; as from the simple will of the artificer it depends that this stone is in part of the wall, and that in another; although the plan requires that some stones should be in this place, and some in that place. Neither on this account can there be said to be injustice in God, if He prepares unequal lots for not unequal things. This would be altogether contrary to the notion of justice, if the effect of predestination were granted as a debt, and not gratuitously. In things which are given gratuitously, a person can give more or less, just as he pleases (provided he deprives nobody of his due), without any infringement of justice. This is what the master of the house said: "Take what is thine, and go thy way. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will?" (Matthew 20:14-15).


SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: Predestination (Prima Pars, Q. 23) (newadvent.org)




Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2023, 09:21:45 AM »
OABrownson posted an interesting article on the abomination of the ICEL translation of "pro multis" as "for all" in the Novus Ordo: https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/patrick-omlor-the-ventriloquists-no-2-'dr-jeremias-and-the-icel-'for-all''/

In the article, Omlor notes:


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This evil and dangerous doctrine of "the final salvation of all mankind," so absolutely at variance with the Church's teaching and so op­posed to the clear teaching of Christ Himself, is the actual cornerstone of the whole edifice of heresy being promoted today under the guise of "ecuмenism." Although this doctrine is not preached openly, explicitly, and in these pre­cise terms (at least not yet on a wide scale), nevertheless it is believed by many; it is the animus of what parades as "ecuмenism."



There has been a progression to this "evil and dangerous doctrine," and that progression has been a main focus of this thread. I would trace its development as a perversion of God's desire to save "all men" into the idea that God gives all men sufficient grace for salvation. A more traditional understanding of this phrase in various senses is expressed by St. Thomas in the Summa, First Part, Question 19, Article 6, Objection 1:




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Reply to Objection 1. The words of the Apostle, "God will have all men to be saved," etc. can be understood in three ways.

First, by a restricted application, in which case they would mean, as Augustine says (De praed. sanct. i, 8: Enchiridion 103), "God wills all men to be saved that are saved, not because there is no man whom He does not wish saved, but because there is no man saved whose salvation He does not will."

Secondly, they can be understood as applying to every class of individuals, not to every individual of each class; in which case they mean that God wills some men of every class and condition to be saved, males and females, Jєωs and Gentiles, great and small, but not all of every condition.

Thirdly, according to Damascene (De Fide Orth. ii, 29), they are understood of the antecedent will of God; not of the consequent will. This distinction must not be taken as applying to the divine will itself, in which there is nothing antecedent nor consequent, but to the things willed.


It's the third sense, regarding the antecedent will to save all men, that morphed in stages to its heretical (I would argue) expression,  under veils that are being removed piece by piece, of the NO in "the final salvation of all mankind." But as I said, its earlier (I think first "development") was in the idea that God offers the grace of salvation to all men, meaning all men specifically and generally - as in every single human being conceived, or perhaps let's say born.

It is patent that the idea formulated in the "every single man sense" is absurd: one merely has to consider the fate of unbaptized infants who perish in infancy. Considered as individuals, it should be obvious that an infant who dies in infancy unbaptized is deprived of individual control over his eternal fate;  that is, he can do nothing of his own volition to merit or cooperate with his salvation. As Pius XII noted in his speech to midwives, the possibility of a salvific "act of love" is not available to an infant.

Despite this obvious fact of human existence, theologians today maintain that every single human being is offered the possibility of salvation,  and that the failure to achieve the same is the fault of the unsaved individual. Again, this idea apparently excludes unbaptized infants from the class of human beings, thus falsifying its claim of universality about the fate of mankind, of which these infants are members.

The antecedent will of God to save all men (in the third of the senses identified by St. Thomas above) is only true, and only survives the test of reason,  as understood and expressed by St. Alphonsus:



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Ch 3. Children who die without Baptism

Here it only remains for us to answer the objection which is drawn from children being lost when they die before Baptism, and before they come to the use of reason. If God wills all to be saved, it is objected, how is it that these children perish without any fault of their own, since God gives them no assistance to attain eternal salvation? There are two answers to this objection, the latter more correct than the former, I will state them briefly.

First, it is answered that God, by antecedent will, wishes all to be saved, and therefore has granted universal means for the salvation of all; but these means at times fail of their effect, either by reason of the unwillingness of some persons to avail themselves of them, or because others are unable to make use of them, on account of secondary causes [such as the death of children], whose course God is not bound to change, after having disposed the whole according to the just judgment of His general Providence; all this is collected from what St. Thomas says: Jesus Christ offered His merits for all men, and instituted Baptism for all; but the application of this means of salvation, so far as relates to children who die before the use of reason, is not prevented by the direct will of God, but by a merely permissive will; because as He is the general provider of all things, He is not bound to disturb the general order, to provide for the particular order.


The second answer is, that to perish is not the same as not to be blessed: since eternal happiness is a gift entirely gratuitous; and therefore the want of it is not a punishment. The opinion, therefore, of St. Thomas-----is very just, that children who die in infancy have neither the pain of sense nor the pain of loss; not the pain of sense, he says, "because pain of sense corresponds to conversion to creatures; and in Original Sin there is not conversion to creatures" [as the fault is not our own], "and therefore pain of sense is not due to Original Sin;" because Original Sin does not imply an act. [De Mal. q. 5, a. 2]

Objectors oppose to this the teaching of St. Augustine, who in some places shows that his opinion was that children are condemned even to the pain of sense. But in another place he declares that he was very much confused about this point. These are his words: When I come to the punishment of infants, I find myself [believe me] in great straits; nor can I at all find anything to say." [Epist. 166, E. B.] And in another place he writes, that it may be said that such children receive neither reward nor punishment: "Nor need we fear that it is impossible there should be a middle sentence between reward and punishment; since their life was midway between sin and good works." [De Lib. Ar. 1, 3, c. 23] This was directly affirmed by St. Gregory nαzιanzen: "Children will be sentenced by the just judge neither to the glory of Heaven nor to punishment." St. Gregory of Nyssa was of the same opinion: "The premature death of children shows that they who have thus ceased to live will not be in pain and unhappiness."

And as far as relates to the pain of loss, although these children are excluded from glory, nevertheless St. Thomas, [In 2 Sent. d. 33, q. 2, a. 2] who had reflected most deeply on this point, teaches that no one feels pain for the want of that good of which he is not capable; so that as no man grieves that he cannot fly, or no private person that he is not emperor, so these children feel no pain at being deprived of the glory of which they were never capable; since they could never pretend to it either by the principles of nature, or by their own merits.

St. Thomas adds, in another place, [De Mal. q. 5, a. 3] a further reason, which is, that the supernatural knowledge of glory comes only by means of actual faith, which transcends all natural knowledge; so that children can never feel pain for the privation of that glory, of which they never had a supernatural knowledge.

He further says, in the former passage, that such children will not only not grieve for the loss of eternal happiness, but will, moreover, have pleasure in their natural gifts; and will even in some way enjoy God, so far as is implied in natural knowledge, and in natural love: "Rather will they rejoice in this, that they will participate much in the Divine goodness, and in natural perfections." And he immediately adds, that although they will be separated from God, as regards the union of glory, nevertheless 'they will be united with Him by participation of natural gifts; and so will even be able to rejoice in Him with a natural knowledge and love." [In 2 Sent. d. 33, q. 2, a. 2]



http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/prayer/pr18.php#bk3


While Lad and I had a bit of a row over the use of "punishment" with regard to the deprivation of the beatific vision to these infants in the thread, "Why is limbo the lower part of hell and not the upper" -

(https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/why-is-limbo-the-lower-part-of-hell-and-not-the-upper/new/#new


that is beside the point here. The point is - and St. Alphonsus assumes it because it's true when he addressed the objection - all men qua individual men do not personally get sufficient grace for salvation.

Once it was falsely assumed that all men qua individual men did get sufficient grace for salvation, the issue naturally arose about men which had not heard the Gospel; men who heard it but grew up in other religions,  and with "good will" under other traditions and influences . . . what about these men who must, since all men do qua individual men, have an opportunity to decide for heaven? We see the further morphing of the idea in JPII's observations in Redemptoris Missio:


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Salvation in Christ Is Offered to All

10. The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.

For this reason the Council, after affirming the centrality of the Paschal Mystery, went on to declare that "this applies not only to Christians but to all people of good will in whose hearts grace is secretly at work. Since Christ died for everyone, and since the ultimate calling of each of us comes from God and is therefore a universal one, we are obliged to hold that the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility of sharing in this Paschal Mystery in a manner known to God."19

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_enc_07121990_redemptoris-missio.html


And  away we go.

This is the logical and natural development of the idea that all men qua individual men are given the chance to exercise their "free will" and achieve salvation: it must extend, to be "fair" as men understand "fairness," to those "good" men of "good" will "in other religious traditions" and under other "social and cultural conditions" which deprive them of "an opportunity to come to know the gospel," etc.

Some sincere and honest reflection, added by as objective reasoning as one if capable, in light of the fact of unbaptized infants who die in infancy and that fact's collision with Catholic principles and theological truths and historically honest attempts to deal with it, e.g., Limbo, show the utter falsity of the idea that all men qua men have an "opportunity" for salvation by exercise of their free will, and that salvation is determined  ultimately by men, and not by the gratuitous grace of God,  as St. Paul taught us explicitly in Romans,  and as God revealed elsewhere in Scripture - as interpreted by sainted Catholic theologians, and in traditionally annotated Catholic Bibles (such as Haydock), cited  in this thread. 

Fr. Feeney famously opined that BOD was the cause of the rot. I say it is the related, but underlying and preceding, erosion of God's predestination and election as taught by Scripture and the Church Traditionally.