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Author Topic: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants  (Read 312936 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2021, 11:45:10 AM »
I feel that one should not spend too much time thinking about this.  It's easy for our puny brains to misunderstand this mystery and can lead to various issues.  I believe it was St. Francis des Sales who was tempted to despair over it for some time.  It's highly disputed regarding how this works, and we'll likely never solve the question.  Even the Church refused to rule on it definitively.  Especially scrupulous types should avoid this subject entirely.
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2021, 12:12:38 PM »
God willed things to be such a way and what He wills is ultimately for a good. It seems horrible, and it is, but it is out of our power to solve this problem.
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2021, 12:32:31 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 19, 2021, 11:45:10 AM
I feel that one should not spend too much time thinking about this.  It's easy for our puny brains to misunderstand this mystery and can lead to various issues.  I believe it was St. Francis des Sales who was tempted to despair over it for some time.  It's highly disputed regarding how this works, and we'll likely never solve the question.  Even the Church refused to rule on it definitively.  Especially scrupulous types should avoid this subject entirely.

Noted. 

As Bishop Sanborn said, it's "Catholic dogma;" it is also in Scripture; as part of revelation, it is worth meditation and reflection, and I believe to profit: it is part of revelation for a reason. If one feels it is not spiritually profitably to reflect upon it, that's fine. 

But if one reflects upon it prayerfully and with humility, I believe it can, to the contrary, be spiritually profitable and exert a positive influence on our devotion and understanding of our faith. 
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2021, 04:54:30 PM »

I will note the following additional comments with regard to Lad's concern about the topic. 

First, how much more heresy and loss of souls has resulted from men speculating on the nature of Our Lord than on God's salvific will : Arianism, Monophysitism, Docetism, Monotheletism, Modalism, etc. Should we not pray, meditate on or dive into the the amazing depths surrounding Our Lord's nature as man and God?

Second, God Himself, when asked to be shown His glory by Moses, responded:


Quote
Exodus 33:18-19 

And he said: shew me thy glory. [19] He answered: I will shew thee all good, and I will proclaim in the name of the Lord before thee: and I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please me.

What could profit a man more than meditating on the majesty and glory of God? 

The only proviso is: with humility, with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12).
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Bishop Sanborn sermon on the Catholic Doctrine of Predestination
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2021, 05:22:08 PM »
Quote from: Marion on November 19, 2021, 11:24:21 AM
Very good, indeed. The most important aspects explained lucidly and succinctly, using good examples.


At the beginning there is an error, but it's effectively corrected later on:

True is: God gives the sufficient grace to save their souls to all just (not to all men). Correction:

Marion,

Your distinction about sufficient grace gets to the reason why unbaptized infants are mentioned in the topic of this thread: what "sufficient grace" did an infant who died in say Mexico in the 10th century get - beyond the Lord's institution in the general order of the sacrament of baptism, which is available to all men without distinction in the general order (see St. Alphonsus above)?

Am I getting near your point?

DR 

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