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Author Topic: From the Bible  (Read 1510 times)

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Offline poche

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From the Bible
« on: September 02, 2017, 11:19:26 PM »
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  • Can you expalin the meaning of Jesus' words to one of the scribe,   'You are not far from the kingdom of God.' 

    Mark 12:34 


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 11:59:58 PM »
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  • Lectio 4
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    28 καὶ προσελθὼν εἷς τῶν γραμματέων ἀκούσας αὐτῶν συζητούντων, ἰδὼν ὅτι καλῶς ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς, ἐπηρώτησεν αὐτόν, ποία ἐστὶν ἐντολὴ πρώτη πάντων; 29 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι πρώτη ἐστίν, ἄκουε, Ἰσραήλ, κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν, 30 καὶ ἀγαπήσεις κύριον τὸν θεόν σου ἐξ ὅλης τῆς καρδίας σου καὶ ἐξ ὅλης τῆς ψυχῆς σου καὶ ἐξ ὅλης τῆς διανοίας σου καὶ ἐξ ὅλης τῆς ἰσχύος σου. 31 δευτέρα αὕτη, ἀγαπήσεις τὸν πλησίον σου ὡς σεαυτόν. μείζων τούτων ἄλλη ἐντολὴ οὐκ ἔστιν. 32 καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ γραμματεύς, καλῶς, διδάσκαλε, ἐπ' ἀληθείας εἶπες ὅτι εἷς ἐστιν καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλος πλὴν αὐτοῦ: 33 καὶ τὸ ἀγαπᾶν αὐτὸν ἐξ ὅλης τῆς καρδίας καὶ ἐξ ὅλης τῆς συνέσεως καὶ ἐξ ὅλης τῆς ἰσχύος καὶ τὸ ἀγαπᾶν τὸν πλησίον ὡς ἑαυτὸν περισσότερόν ἐστιν πάντων τῶν ὁλοκαυτωμάτων καὶ θυσιῶν. 34 καὶ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἰδὼν [αὐτὸν] ὅτι νουνεχῶς ἀπεκρίθη εἶπεν αὐτῷ, οὐ μακρὰν εἶ ἀπὸ τῆς βασιλείας τοῦ θεοῦ. καὶ οὐδεὶς οὐκέτι ἐτόλμα αὐτὸν ἐπερωτῆσαι.
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    28. And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?" 29. And Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." 32. And the scribe said unto Him, "Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but He: 33. And to love Him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, He said unto him, "Thou art not far from the kingdom of God." And no man after that durst ask Him any question.

    Glossa: Postquam dominus confutavit Pharisaeos et Sadducaeos tentantes, hic ostenditur quomodo satisfecit Scribae quaerenti; unde dicitur et accessit unus de Scribis qui audierat illos conquirentes, et videns quod bene illis responderit, interrogavit eum quod esset primum omnium mandatum.Gloss.: After that the Lord confuted the Pharisees, and the Sadducees, who tempted Him, it is here shewn how He satisfied the Scribe who questioned Him. Wherefore it is said, "And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked Him, Which is the first commandment of [p. 247] all?"
    Hieronymus: Quae est haec quaestio problematis quod est commune omnibus peritis in lege, nisi quod diversa in Exodo et Levitico et Deuteronomio ordinantur mandata? Unde non unum, sed duo intulit mandata, quibus quasi duobus uberibus super pectus sponsae elevatis nostra alitur infantia; et ideo subditur primum omnium mandatum est: audi, Israel, dominus Deus tuus Deus unus est. Primum omnium mandatum dicit; hoc est quod ante omnia debemus in corde singuli quasi unicuм pietatis fundamentum locare, idest cognitio atque confessio divinae unitatis cuм executione bonae operationis, quae in dilectione Dei et proximi perficitur; unde subdit et diliges dominum Deum tuum ex toto corde tuo, et ex tota anima tua, et ex tota mente tua, et ex tota virtute tua: hoc est primum mandatum.Pseudo-Jerome: This question is only that which is a problem common to all skilled in the law, namely, that the commandments are differently set forth in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Wherefore He brought forward not one but two commandments, by which, as by two paps rising on the breast of the bride, our infancy is nourished. And therefore there is added, "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord thy God is one God." He mentions the first and greatest commandment of all; this is that to which each of us must give the first place in his heart, as the only foundation of piety, that is, the knowledge and confession of the Divine Unity, with the practice of good works, which is perfected in the love of God and our neighbour. Wherefore there is added, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment."
    Theophylactus: Attende qualiter omnes animae vires enumeravit. Est enim virtus animae animalis, quam expedit in dicendo ex tota anima tua, ad quam pertinet ira et desiderium; quae omnia tribui vult divino amori. Est et alia vis quae dicitur naturalis, ad quam pertinet nutritiva et augmentativa; et ista est etiam danda domino tota; propter quod dicit ex toto corde. Est et alia vis rationalis, quam mentem vocat; et ista etiam est danda Deo tota.Theophylact: See how He has enumerated all the powers of the soul; for there is a living power in the soul, which He explains, when He says, "With all thy soul," and to this belong anger and desire, all of which He will have us give to Divine love. There is also another power, which is called natural, to which belong nutriment and growth, and this also is all to be given to God, for which reason He says, "With all thy heart." There is also another power, the rational, which He calls the mind, and that too is to be given whole to God.
    Glossa: Quod autem subdit et ex tota fortitudine, ad vires corporales referri potest.Gloss.: The words which are added, "And with all thy strength," may be referred to the bodily powers.
    Sequitur secundum autem simile est huic: diliges proximum tuum sicut teipsum.It goes on: "And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
    Theophylactus: Propter hoc dicit esse simile, quia haec duo mandata alternatim sunt sibi consona, et reciproce convertuntur: nam qui diligit Deum, diligit et facturam suam. Principale autem factorum eius est homo: unde qui diligit Deum, diligere debet omnes homines; qui vero diligit proximum, qui multoties dat causam scandali, multo magis eum debet diligere qui semper praestat beneficia; et ideo propter cohaerentiam horum mandatorum subdit maius horum aliud mandatum non est.Theophylact: He says that it is like, because these two commandments are harmonious one with the other, and mutually contain the other. For he who loves God, loves also His creature; but the chief of His creatures is man, wherefore he who loves God ought to love all men. But he who loves his neighbor, who so often offends him, ought much more to love Him, who is ever giving him benefits. And therefore on account of the connection between these commandments, He adds, "There is none other commandment greater than these."
    Sequitur et ait illi Scriba: bene, magister, in veritate dixisti.It goes on: "And the Scribe said unto Him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: [p. 248] for there is one God, and there is none other but He: and to love Him with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices."
    Beda: Ostendit ex hoc quod dicit maius est omnibus holocautomatibus et sacrificiis, gravem saepe inter Scribas et Pharisaeos quaestionem esse versatam, quod esset mandatum primum sive maximum divinae legis; quibusdam videlicet hostias et sacrificia laudantibus; aliis vero fidei et dilectionis opera praeferentibus eo quod plurimi patrum ante legem ex fide tantum, quae per dilectionem operatur, placerent Deo. In hac sententia Scriba iste se fuisse declarat.Bede: He shews when he says, "this is greater than all sacrifices," that a grave question was often debated between the scribes and Pharisees, which was the first commandment, or the greatest of the Divine law; that is, some praised offerings and sacrifices, others preferred acts of faith and love, because many of the fathers before the law pleased God by that faith only, which works by love. This scribe shews that he was of the latter opinion.
    Sequitur Iesus autem videns quod sapienter respondisset, dixit illi: non longe es a regno Dei.But it continues: "And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, He said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God."
    Theophylactus: In quo non eum esse perfectum testatur: non enim dixit: intra regnum caelorum es; sed non longe es a regno Dei.Theophylact: By which He shews that he was not perfect, for He did not say, Thou art within the kingdom of heaven, but, "Thou art not far from the kingdom of God."
    Beda: Ideo autem non fit longe a regno Dei, quia sententiae illius quae novi testamenti et evangelicae perfectionis est propria, fautor extitisse probatus est.Bede: But the reason why he was not far from the kingdom of God was, that he proved himself to be a favourer of that opinion, which is proper to the New Testament and to Gospel perfection.
    Augustinus de Cons. Evang: Nec moveat quod Matthaeus dicit tentantem fuisse, a quo dominus interrogatus est: fieri enim potest ut quamvis tentans accesserit, domini tamen responsione correctus sit; aut certe ipsam tentationem non accipiamus malam, tamquam decipere volentis inimicuм, sed cautam potius, tamquam experiri amplius volentis ignotum.Augustine, de Con. Evan, ii, 73: Nor let it trouble us that Matthew says, that he who addressed this question to the Lord tempted Him; for it may be that though he came as a tempter, yet he was corrected by the answer of the Lord. Or at all events, we must not look upon the temptation as evil, and done with the intention of deceiving an enemy, but rather as the caution of a man who wished to try a thing unknown to him.
    Hieronymus: Vel non est longe qui venit callide: longior namque est ignorantia a regno Dei quam scientia; unde supra Sadducaeis: erratis, inquit, nescientes Scripturas neque virtutem Dei.Pseudo-Jerome: Or else, he is not far who comes with knowledge; for ignorance is farther from the kingdom of God than knowledge; wherefore He says above to the Sadducees, "Ye err, not knowing the Scriptures, or the power of God."
    Sequitur et nemo audebat iam eum interrogare,
    quia enim in sermonibus confutati sunt, ultra non interrogant, sed apertissime comprehensum Romanae tradunt potestati. Ex quo intelligimus venena invidiae posse quidem superari, sed difficile conquiescere.
    It goes on: "And no man after that durst ask Him any questions."<
    >Bede: For since they were confuted in argument, they ask Him no further questions, but take Him without any disguise, and give Him up to the Roman power. From which we understand that the venom of envy may be overcome, but can hardly lie quiet.
    Catena: Mk 12:28-34
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline poche

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 05:01:33 AM »
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  • >Bede: For since they were confuted in argument, they ask Him no further questions, but take Him without any disguise, and give Him up to the Roman power. From which we understand that the venom of envy may be overcome, but can hardly lie quiet.

    Not everyone was involved in putting him to death. There were Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimethea.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 05:05:32 AM »
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  • You asked, and I answered with answers already given; so what are we talking about now, and why is it on this thread?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline poche

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 04:46:56 AM »
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  • You asked, and I answered with answers already given; so what are we talking about now, and why is it on this thread?
    Because Jesus told one of the scribes that he was not far from the Kingdom of Heaven.    


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 05:15:03 AM »
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  • Because Jesus told one of the scribes that he was not far from the Kingdom of Heaven.   

    Yeah I quit.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 09:43:58 AM »
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  • Because Jesus told one of the scribes that he was not far from the Kingdom of Heaven.    
    Jesus no doubt said that because that particular scribe not only knew but believed in the message of Jesus.  He showed Faith therefore when Jesus said he was not far, this was His way of saying, you are on the right path; stay remain there since you are not far from My Kingdom.  As we Traditional Catholics are also not far from the Kingdom of Heaven, we must continue to persevere to reach our goal.


    Thanks DZ PLEASE for giving the context, that always helps.  
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 01:59:07 AM »
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  • Jesus no doubt said that because that particular scribe not only knew but believed in the message of Jesus.  He showed Faith therefore when Jesus said he was not far, this was His way of saying, you are on the right path; stay remain there since you are not far from My Kingdom.  As we Traditional Catholics are also not far from the Kingdom of Heaven, we must continue to persevere to reach our goal.


    Thanks DZ PLEASE for giving the context, that always helps.  
    So, does that mean that there are Jєωιѕн scribes and rabbis who show Faith and therefore are not far form the Kingdom of God?


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 08:52:46 AM »
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  • So, does that mean that there are Jєωιѕн scribes and rabbis who show Faith and therefore are not far form the Kingdom of God?
    Keep in mind when Jesus spoke those words the Jєωιѕн religion was at that time The Faith, the words today extend as "even Seven" explained.  Grace begins as a mustard seed and if one cooperates with it it will grow. All the while the soul "whoever" gets closer (not far) from the Kingdom of God?  
    Poche ... exactly what do you think the words meant then and now?   Please answer! 
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 02:22:10 PM »
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  • There can be Jєωιѕн "scribes" and "rabbis" who have been given the prevenient graces from God necessary to conversion. They are however not in the Church yet. So they are getting closer to the faith which needs to be finalized through Baptism, which requires their desire to be Baptized.
    I hope this clears it up.
    The Church infallibly teaches BOD.  God does not ask the impossible.  Such as insisting one who dies before he had a chance to get baptized raise himself up from the dead and get baptized in order for salvation to be possible for him.  He does not ask one to deny him in order to avoid martyrdom so he can get baptized later and be saved.  This is obvious to theologians and good-willed Catholics not brainwashed in Feeneyism.  This is not the same as denying baptism is necessary with a necessity of precept and a relative necessity of means.  Of course God does not insist on the impossible and can infuse supernatural faith and charity into a soul apart from water and has.  But one who rejects baptism will be damned.  And one who needlessly puts it off and then dies . . .  don't want to be in his shoes either.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Meg

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 06:49:59 PM »
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  • The Church infallibly teaches BOD.  God does not ask the impossible.  Such as insisting one who dies before he had a chance to get baptized raise himself up from the dead and get baptized in order for salvation to be possible for him.  He does not ask one to deny him in order to avoid martyrdom so he can get baptized later and be saved.  This is obvious to theologians and good-willed Catholics not brainwashed in Feeneyism.  This is not the same as denying baptism is necessary with a necessity of precept and a relative necessity of means.  Of course God does not insist on the impossible and can infuse supernatural faith and charity into a soul apart from water and has.  But one who rejects baptism will be damned.  And one who needlessly puts it off and then dies . . .  don't want to be in his shoes either.

    Well said. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 08:18:53 PM »
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  • The Lord Jesus teaches,
    Quote
     Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
    The Catholic Church must teach the Gospel of Christ without removing or adding anything, or denying that he meant exactly what he has said.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #12 on: September 14, 2017, 05:10:44 AM »
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  • The Lord Jesus teaches,The Catholic Church must teach the Gospel of Christ without removing or adding anything, or denying that he meant exactly what he has said.
    The Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes that teach BOB/D are aware of the quote.  No?  They don't understand but you do?
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 09:15:54 AM »
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  • The Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes that teach BOB/D are aware of the quote.  No?  They don't understand but you do?
    Well, plainly put, If they were to hold any other meaning of His words they would be heretics, so one must conclude that in the end, and beyond their speculations and desires, that all of these Catholic luminaries believe the Gospel, which is the word of Christ, and which they have sworn to teach and preserve unaltered.
     I don't have to understand it beyond what it says, I have to believe it.  Were there more to be said Christ would have said it. He clearly told men what they must do to be saved.
    It is the flawed mind of fallen man which is compelled to presume upon Him for those who do not do it.
    Quote
    Amen, amen I say to you: He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber.
    The door being "born again of water and the Holy Ghost".
    Thanks be to God.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: From the Bible
    « Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 09:19:01 AM »
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  • Well, plainly put, If they were to hold any other meaning of His words they would be heretics, so one must conclude that in the end, that all of these Catholic luminaries believe the Gospel, which is the word of Christ, and which they have sworn to teach and preserve unaltered.
      I don't have to understand it beyond what it says, I have to believe it.  Were there more to be said Christ would have said it. He clearly told men what they must do to be saved.
     It is the flawed mind of fallen man which is compelled to presume upon Him for those who do not do it.The door being "born again of water and the Holy Ghost".
    Thanks be to God.
    "Crede, ut intelligas."

    S. Augustine of Hippo
    "Lord, have mercy".