Author Topic: From a Soul in Purgatory  (Read 925 times)

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Offline GJC

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Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2017, 08:15:59 AM »
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  • For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2Tim 4:3)
    Those ears are itching so bad these days, makes me wonder if they have been infected with poison ivy...



    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #16 on: December 05, 2017, 09:59:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat on December 03, 2017, 10:06:46 PM
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    No Protestant, as a Protestant, can ever go to Heaven ....

    Could you explain what you mean here? Thanks
    .
    Any Protestant at the point of death who remains a Protestant and dies that way cannot be saved.
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    No one like that can ever go to heaven.
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    There are no Protestants in heaven.
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    There can be converts FROM Protestantism in heaven, or those who WERE Protestants and became Catholics.
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    Consequently, there are no Protestants in Purgatory, either, contrary to poche's silly quote of Modernist rubbish.
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    Protestants  as Protestants do not go to Purgatory, and it comes as no surprise that they don't believe in Purgatory.
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    They don't believe in the very thing that could save them if they were to believe in it, ironically.
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    Because a Protestant who at the point of death gives up his Protestantism and accepts the Catholic truth might be eligible to go to Purgatory (with God's discretion and perfect contrition) and could thereby be purged of his sins since he died with perfect contrition.
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    This is more rare than one might think because perfect contrition is very difficult even for devout Catholics.
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    When someone doesn't believe in hell, there is a difference, because you don't have to believe in hell to go there.
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    This is part of the great difference between Purgatory and hell. 
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    When I asked poche the question, that was his opportunity to provide the correct answer, but he missed his chance.
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    Protestants can go to hell even if they don't believe in hell, but they can't go to Purgatory if they don't believe in Purgatory.
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    Purgatory is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith and to deny one doctrine of the Faith is to deny the whole thing.
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    No one who accepts the Catholic Faith disbelieves in Purgatory, and accepting the Catholic Faith is the only way of being able to go to Purgatory in the first place.
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    Everyone has two choices:
    1)  Believe the Catholic Faith, which includes believing in Purgatory, and be eligible for Purgatory and eventually heaven, 
    ............. or, 
    2)  Don't believe the Catholic Faith, even if it's just your refusal to believe in Purgatory, and consequently go directly to hell.
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    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #17 on: December 05, 2017, 10:20:31 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat on Yesterday at 05:31:09 PM
    Quote
    .
    How do you arrive at the figure, 99.99%?
    .

    That is my experience in the USA. Strict EENSers are a rare find. Moreover, in my experience, most Catholics know nothing about the faith to begin with, all  they know is "ask Father".

    What is your experience?
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    I haven't taken my own poll, and I don't know 10,000 people who are random statistical representatives of the entire USA. 
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    Since you are employing four significant figures your margin of error would be one in ten thousand, unless otherwise stated. 
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    You didn't mention anything about your margin of error. Maybe you don't know what margin of error is.
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    If your error were greater than one in ten thousand then you wouldn't be using four significant figures......
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    That is, presuming you know what you're talking about.
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    Unless your use of four figures is due to ignorance, in which case, you don't know what you're talking about.
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    If you mean to say "the vast majority," then you ought to say that instead of "99.99%" which has a specific meaning.
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    99.9% implies an error of one in one thousand, unless otherwise stated.
    99% implies an error of one in one hundred, unless otherwise stated.
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    To validly state 99% you would be saying you know at least one hundred people who are representative of the entire USA.
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    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #18 on: December 05, 2017, 10:27:32 AM »
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  • Those ears are itching so bad these days, makes me wonder if they have been infected with poison ivy...
    .
    Just this past week, I have heard 3 different people, who probably don't even know each other, but they all said the same thing, generally speaking.
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    They said they were "raised Catholic" then proceeded to pronounce their belief in reincarnation.
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    It made me wonder, how long before Bishop of Rome Francis chimes in on reincarnation? 
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    When the frequency of reincarnation adherents reaches critical mass?
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    Offline poche

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #19 on: December 27, 2017, 04:55:23 AM »
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  • From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church


    Offline GJC

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #20 on: December 27, 2017, 08:22:11 AM »
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  • From the Baltimore Catechism;

    Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
    A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
    1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
    2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
    3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-11-on-the-church
    When there is conflict of messages the infallible teaching of the Church are to be believed FIRST!

    From the Vatican I Council:

    6. Now, although the assent of faith is by no means a blind movement of the mind, yet no one can accept the gospel preaching in the way that is necessary for achieving salvation without the inspiration and illumination of the Holy Spirit, who gives to all facility in accepting and believing the truth.

    Do you see the conflict here? If you believe Q. 510 # 2, then you would have to disagree with the Vatican I council. You would be either confessing that the Holy Spirit teaches error, which would be blaspheme. Or a person could achieve salvation without the illumination of the Holy Spirit.



    Offline poche

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #21 on: December 27, 2017, 11:08:40 PM »
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  • When there is conflict of messages the infallible teaching of the Church are to be believed FIRST!

    From the Vatican I Council:

    6. Now, although the assent of faith is by no means a blind movement of the mind, yet no one can accept the gospel preaching in the way that is necessary for achieving salvation without the inspiration and illumination of the Holy Spirit, who gives to all facility in accepting and believing the truth.

    Do you see the conflict here? If you believe Q. 510 # 2, then you would have to disagree with the Vatican I council. You would be either confessing that the Holy Spirit teaches error, which would be blaspheme. Or a person could achieve salvation without the illumination of the Holy Spirit.
    That appears to say the same thing as the Baltimore Catechism.

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #22 on: January 03, 2018, 10:14:56 PM »
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  • According to the soul in Purgatory they are not saved because of their protestantism, but in spite of it. The soul acknowledged that the Protestants do not receive as many graces as Catholics but also that there are many Catholics who abuse these graces.
    This is an example of the limitless mental somersaults of the Bogus Ordo theologians.


    Offline trad123

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #23 on: January 04, 2018, 11:49:41 PM »
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  • That appears to say the same thing as the Baltimore Catechism.

    A Protestant firmly believing the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion is antithetical to accepting and believing the truth. The Protestant who dies believing in his creed accepts and believes in a falsehood.
    The Mahometan Paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there. - St. Alphonsus

    For when they shall rise again from the dead, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but are as the angels - Mark 12:25

    Offline poche

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #24 on: January 06, 2018, 12:12:24 AM »
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  • A Protestant firmly believing the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion is antithetical to accepting and believing the truth. The Protestant who dies believing in his creed accepts and believes in a falsehood.
    What you are saying contradicts the Baltimore Catechism.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #25 on: January 06, 2018, 12:05:49 PM »
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  • Poche, how long have you been on this website, and read all the BOD/BOB and Modernist presentations, and have yet to pick up on how the Baltimore Catechism was put together by the liberals of the American Hierarchy, at a time when they were not just (beginning to be?) influenced by Masonry, but also in the business of getting along with the non-Catholics of the United States, and making salvation a non-challenge to those souls?  They would not tell them there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  And then, even if they mentioned that, or the phrase "One True Church," they would soften the requirements with Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.

    I know people who were never taught BOB/BOD - and catechisms other than the Baltimore which NEVER mentions it.  The catechisms prior to the Baltimore catechism in this country did not mention it.

    What do you think Pope Leo's slap down of the U.S. Hierarchy via his condemnation of Americanism was all about?  In it he stated his alarm at the liberalism here, and that Catholicism as taught in America had better be the same as that taught in the rest of the world.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"


    Offline poche

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 02:02:56 AM »
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  • Poche, how long have you been on this website, and read all the BOD/BOB and Modernist presentations, and have yet to pick up on how the Baltimore Catechism was put together by the liberals of the American Hierarchy, at a time when they were not just (beginning to be?) influenced by Masonry, but also in the business of getting along with the non-Catholics of the United States, and making salvation a non-challenge to those souls?  They would not tell them there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.  And then, even if they mentioned that, or the phrase "One True Church," they would soften the requirements with Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.

    I know people who were never taught BOB/BOD - and catechisms other than the Baltimore which NEVER mentions it.  The catechisms prior to the Baltimore catechism in this country did not mention it.

    What do you think Pope Leo's slap down of the U.S. Hierarchy via his condemnation of Americanism was all about?  In it he stated his alarm at the liberalism here, and that Catholicism as taught in America had better be the same as that taught in the rest of the world.
    A Catechism of Christian Doctrine, Prepared and Enjoined by Order of the Third Council of Baltimore, or simply the Baltimore Catechism,[1] was the official national catechism for children in the United States of America, based on Robert Bellarmine's 1614 Small Catechism. The first such catechism written for Catholics in North America, it was the standard Catholic school text in the country from 1885 to the late 1960s. It was officially replaced by the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults in 2004, based on the revised universal Catechism of the Catholic Church.
    In response to a personal copyright taken out by Bishop John Lancaster Spalding,[2] various editions include annotations or other modifications. While the approved text had to remain the same in the catechisms, by adding maps, glossaries or definitions publishers could copyright and sell their own version of the catechism. The Baltimore Catechism remained in use in nearly all Catholic schools until many moved away from catechism-based education, though it is still used in some.
    Contents
     [hide]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Catechism

    The Baltimore Catechism is hardly a liberal novus ordoite catechism.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #27 on: January 07, 2018, 04:47:51 PM »
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  • You believe Wikipedia - notoriously written by liberals to push their various agendas?  

    The catechisms used in the US before the liberal Baltimore Catechism, did not have BOD/BOB.  Neither did the original Trent catechism, or St. Robert Bellarmine's nor the Irish (Penny) Catechism.  

    You don't seem to get what the Conspiracy has done in the Church, how it operates, or how it has made inroads in the United States.  It specifically hates No Salvation outside the Catholic Church.  At the time of the French Revolution, their leaders would say, "If anyone says 'there is no salvation outside the Church' - let him be driven from the state!" This is why they pushed ecumenism at the Vatican II Council, and why Fr. Feeney was so inconvenient for them.

     "Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - Jn 3:5

    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #28 on: January 07, 2018, 05:58:19 PM »
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  • .
    Protestants don't believe in Purgatory why would they go there?
    .
    No Protestant, as a Protestant, can ever go to Heaven this is a defined Catholic dogma and if you don't believe it then you can't go to heaven, either, as if you were Protestant.
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    This is exactly correct as bolded it hints to the fact that God's grace, in the end, could bring him to the Catholic Faith, unknown to the world but known to God.  He took his last breath in God's good grace just as the thief who some say stoled heaven and died a Catholic.  Perfect Act of Contrition. Yet, Purgatory and Our Lady told the Fatima children that their little friend (I think her name was Amelia) would be in Purgatory till the end of time, and she was just a child.  

    We don't know for sure how many souls were given the grace of a Perfect Act of Contrition, but we can hope and pray for God's mercy in that regard.  Since the Church teaches that there is such a grace.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: From a Soul in Purgatory
    « Reply #29 on: January 07, 2018, 06:00:25 PM »
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  • And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
    That quote might be just as applicable to a novus ordo "catholic".  We don't know how God judges a soul, so work out your salvation in fear and trembling as St. Paul says. 

     

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