Author Topic: Fr. Stepanich on Outside of the Church There is No Salvation (Read 22353 times)

CM · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »

And just to clarify what I mean by ambiguous:

When a text is translated from one language to another, it is generally impossible to translate each individual word, while keeping the same structure, since many words have slightly different meanings or contexts between different languages.

For example, "casus" can mean have any of the following meanings: accident, chance, fortune, downfall, a falling, occasion, opportunity / event, accident, violent death

But we know which one the Catechism 'translators' have gradually pushed on us, despite the many alternatives that would not be heretical, that would not necessitate contradicting dogmas.

Also, there are subtle differences in syntax to account for, etc.

CM · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:07:59 PM »

Likewise, the word "impediat" was used, which can likely mean any of the following: hindrance, impediment, obstacle, difficulty, entangle, ensnare, obstruct, surround, hinder, prevent.

Yet the 'translators' chose to use the words "make it impossible..."

Come on!

So the Latin:

"...qui rationis usu praediti sint, Baptismi suscipiendi propositum, atque consilium, & male actae vitae poenitentia satis futura sit ad gratiam, & iustitiam, si repentinus aliquis casus impediat, quominus salutari aqua ablui possint."

Was 'translated' (paraphrased) to say:

"should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

When it can and should rightly have been translated to say something more like this (to avoid heresy):

"should any unforeseen hindrance or difficulty obstruct adults from being washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

Understood thus, it doesn't say that a person who DIES WITHOUT BAPTISM goes to heaven, but that such a person may overcome their difficulties in obtaining the sacrament.

The Catholic truth, that God will get His sacrament to those whom He deems worthy, no matter what worldly obstacles they may need to overcome (as Vladimir points out, Caius of Korea, who I would like to research more, is a good example). Who else would He deem worthy, if not those who truly repent of their sins and desire to love and to serve Him?

Elizabeth · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:59:14 PM »

Your "sources", your translations and most importantly your borrowed interpretations of Catholic Theology prove nothing. Who exactly is your "translator"?

How about a point-by-point proof that everything Fr. Stepanich says is junk?

Which '

Quote

translators' "chose to use the words "make it impossible..."
Quote
?????

:roll-laugh1:

Dawn · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2009, 07:24:25 PM »

As far as the Holy Innocents or the Good Theif, Dismas, you look with your own eyes. But, to Christ all time is the same. Christ can reach ahead to his Passion, Death and Resurrection and apply them as He sees fit. Whether it be to His Holy Mother so that she IS the Immaculate Conception, or to the Holy Innocents so that they receive Baptism of Desire when Christ was still an infant or to Dismas before He resurrected.

CM · « **Reply #29 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:55:21 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

How about a point-by-point proof that everything Fr. Stepanich says is junk?

I already have writings that show his position to be incorrect, point for point. Pick the points you are the most convinced by and post them in a response to this post and I will address them once again here, for the sake of those who may be reading this with good will.