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Author Topic: Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?  (Read 28357 times)

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Offline trad123

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Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
« Reply #120 on: October 13, 2010, 08:30:58 PM »
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  • 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #121 on: October 13, 2010, 08:32:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: anonymouse
    I don't understand what point you are trying to make with protestants and Eastern Orthodox. Many of these people, if they were born into these religions, would have been validly baptized. This would all depend upon what protestant denomination they were born into.

    So, if they were validly baptized, it would then become a matter of becoming Catholic, not being baptized.


    This discussion doesn't merely revolve around the topic of Baptism, but the dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #122 on: October 13, 2010, 08:37:39 PM »
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  • I've been quoting so far to show that it's possible to receive the Sacrament of Baptism in actuality or desire.

    Now, what about a person who has received the sacrament, but is so unfortunate as to find himself in a heretical or schismatic group?

    The same principles apply.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline anonymouse

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #123 on: October 13, 2010, 08:40:28 PM »
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  • trad123, who are you quoting to show implicit desire of baptism, without water, is enough for salvation?

    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #124 on: October 13, 2010, 08:40:49 PM »
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  • We're going to get into the differences between a material and a formal heretic.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #126 on: October 13, 2010, 08:58:00 PM »
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  • I'll be delving into the dogma that there is no salvation outside the Church.



    Manual of Dogmatic Theology Volume I, Tanquerey, p. 160

    Quote
    All theologians teach that publicly known heretics, that is, those who belong to a heterodox sect through public profession, or those who refuse the infallible teaching authority of the Church, are excluded from the body of the Church, even if their heresy is only material heresy.



    Dogmatic Theology Volume II: Christ's Church, Van Noort, p. 241-242

    Quote
    b. Public heretics (and a fortiori, apostates) are not members of the Church.  They are not members because they separate themselves from the unity of Catholic faith and from the external profession of that faith. Obviously, therefore, they lack one of three factors—baptism, profession of the same faith, union with the hierarchy—pointed out by Pius XII as requisite for membership in the Church. The same pontiff has explicitly pointed out that, unlike other sins, heresy, schism, and apostasy automatically sever a man from the Church. "For not every sin, however grave and enormous it be, is such as to sever a man automatically from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy" (MCC 30; italics ours).
         By the term public heretics at this point we mean all who externally deny a truth (for example Mary's Divine Maternity), or several truths of divine and Catholic faith, regardless of whether the one denying does so ignorantly and innocently (a merely material heretic), or willfully and guiltily (a formal heretic). It is certain that public, formal heretics are severed from the Church membership. It is the more common opinion that public, material heretics are likewise excluded from membership. Theological reasoning for this opinion is quite strong: if public material heretics remained members of the Church, the visibility and unity of Christ's Church would perish. If these purely material heretics were considered members of the Catholic Church in the strict sense of the term, how would one ever locate the "Catholic Church"? How would the Church be one body? How would it profess one faith? Where would be its visibility? Where its unity? For these and other reasons we find it difficult to see any intrinsic probability to the opinion which would allow for public heretics, in good faith, remaining members of the Church.  


    So then, material heretics do not remain members of the Church.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline innocenza

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #128 on: October 13, 2010, 09:36:39 PM »
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  • Alexandria, I am in the same position as you, insofar as this discussion does little beyond twisting the mind into a pretzel.

    Myrna,  as I've noticed before, you seem to find everything about the Faith to be clear and simple.  Are you aware of just how long is the time during which Modernism has been infiltrating the Church?  (Way before the era when you were a girl in school.)   Does it occur to you that there are catechisms and catechisms?  

    Offline roscoe

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #129 on: October 13, 2010, 10:16:52 PM »
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  • Unless I am mistaken, Myrna is associated with CMRI in some way. Her idea that FR GWS popes were( are)  anti-popes is I believe from Fr Radecki and I believe he has something to do with CMRI as well. This is wrong and has been explained by Prof Pastor.
    The Council that settled GWS  (1) could not figure out which of the Papal Claimants( Fr or It) was legally elected (2) could not find any apostacy, (3) blasphemy or (4) heresy by the time Pope John recanted. Therefore there is NO REASON for an anti-pope to exist.
    Myrna cannot bring herself to declare the v2 anti-popes but she still thinks Fr GWS popes were.  :confused1:

    Fr Radecki ( and SSPX) also defies Pope Clement V's 8 time condemnation of Templars-- which has never been recinded by any Pope. What is Myrna's op re: Templars and Fr Radecki's denial of Papal Authority?
     
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #130 on: October 13, 2010, 10:24:24 PM »
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  • Unless I am mistaken, a Papal Bull represents the highest level of Infallibility. We are therefore bound by all 8 that Clement published.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Charles

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #131 on: October 13, 2010, 10:26:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: trad123
    Quote from: Charles
    What of the protestant who walks in imitation of Christ but rejects the Doctrine and Dogma of the Church ?

    Can they be saved without embracing it ?


    No, such a person would not be saved.

    Now, if that person was in the state of invincible ignorance then strictly speaking he isn't a true heretic. I say this: if it were possible that such a person's ignorance could be removed they would surely become a Catholic. It is possible for such a person, being in such a state, to have supernatural faith.


    Ok, thank you. That is my understanding after reading threads on the matter, and boy oh boy, do these threads get long !

    I'm at the point where I can only sort it out by asking simple questions. So, I have two more if I may ask.

    - A person has been an atheist all his life, and on his deathbed, repents and prays intensely for mercy, rejecting Satan, and asks a friend to go find a priest. The friend leaves, finds one, and returns. But it's too late. Can the person still be saved ? By his Desire to convert to Catholicism ?

    - If the answer is yes, and assuming that priest was Fr Feeney, would Fr Feeney have believed the person could possibly have been saved by virtue of the desire to convert ?


    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #132 on: October 13, 2010, 10:32:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charles
    - A person has been an atheist all his life, and on his deathbed, repents and prays intensely for mercy, rejecting Satan, and asks a friend to go find a priest. The friend leaves, finds one, and returns. But it's too late. Can the person still be saved ? By his Desire to convert to Catholicism ?


    Supernatural faith is necessary for salvation. If he rejects Atheism and believes in God he still needs to believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation.

    Quote from: Charles
    - If the answer is yes, and assuming that priest was Fr Feeney, would Fr Feeney have believed the person could possibly have been saved by virtue of the desire to convert ?


    Fr. Feeney would have undoubtedly said no.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Charles

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #133 on: October 13, 2010, 10:40:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: trad123
    Quote from: Charles
    - A person has been an atheist all his life, and on his deathbed, repents and prays intensely for mercy, rejecting Satan, and asks a friend to go find a priest. The friend leaves, finds one, and returns. But it's too late. Can the person still be saved ? By his Desire to convert to Catholicism ?


    Supernatural faith is necessary for salvation. If he rejects Atheism and believes in God he still needs to believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation.

    Quote from: Charles
    - If the answer is yes, and assuming that priest was Fr Feeney, would Fr Feeney have believed the person could possibly have been saved by virtue of the desire to convert ?


    Fr. Feeney would have undoubtedly said no.


    So Fr Feeney took John 3:5 literally ? If yes, that, and the fact he was not required to retract his position, leaves the door open to take either position ?

    In other words, the Church would allow one to believe the atheist may have been saved, or also allow one to believe his soul was lost ?

    At this point, I'm leaning toward the thought that it's ok to be a Feeneyite.

    Offline trad123

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    Fr. Leonard Feeney - Who is he what did he teach?
    « Reply #134 on: October 13, 2010, 10:49:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charles
    So Fr Feeney took John 3:5 literally ? If yes, that, and the fact he was not required to retract his position, leaves the door open to take either position ?


    That is because "Pope" Paul VI "absolved” Father Feeney from excommunication without requiring him to retract his position.  The Novus Ordo is a smorgasbord of falsehood.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.