Author Topic: Baptism of Desire.. (Read 8395 times)

Elizabeth · « **Reply #75 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:42:52 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

What saves you through BOD is grace.

That's the truth.

roscoe · « **Reply #76 on:** August 21, 2011, 02:57:13 PM »

We have to be careful not to let our interpretation of grace evolve into that of Luther for that would be an act of Black( or would it be white) Magic.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #77 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:09:37 PM »

Quote from: Daegus

Quote from: MyrnaM
Quote
ut baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it?

Who here said it wasn't a baptism? Or is that just your way to sound like you know what you are talking about?

I find it funny how you appear to be getting agitated over this discussion. If you can't handle this discussion you're free to not post. Do you always get upset when people don't agree with you?

Anyways...

Now, to answer your question, no one said it wasn't a baptism. I was making the point that it is (or at least, you are, necessarily, saying that it is) a baptism by asking that question. If BoD is really a baptism, and natural water is necessary for baptism, how is baptism of desire supposed to work? Trent does say that natural water is necessary for baptism. You can get as irritated as you want, but I'm not leaving this alone until I get answers that actually make sense.

First off, I was not nor am I agitated, but wanted to make the point that BOD is a baptism because the Church teaches it as such.

People here have answered your question but you don't like the answer.

My imagination for what it's worth is, instead of pouring water over the head (which is the outward sign of a sacrament). God pours out His grace upon the soul of the person who died without the sacrament, but died in Gods favor. The person died because, although he/she had every intention of being baptized by water, yet his/her time on earth came up. Remember there is no time where God is, He is not concerned with time. God is NOT restricted by time.

If these answers don't satisfy you, you might have to wait till you see God face to face and ask Him. You said you were not going to leave it alone till you get an answer, be careful what you wish for; since you won't believe His Church.

SJB · « **Reply #78 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:22:58 PM »

Quote from: Daegus

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Daegus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Daegus
But baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it?

It's been explained, you just don't want to accept it. BOD is not a Sacrament.

Absolute rubbish. You're not in any way contributing to the discussion by posting this nonsense. You say that BoD is a baptism. I say: well if it's a baptism that does not involve water, what do we make of Trent that says that water is necessary for baptism? It being a sacrament or not is not relevant.

Maybe if you people would stop equivocating the discussion would be a lot smoother.

Your first post on this thread is a lie. You're not here to understand, you're here to teach your own doctrine.

Quote from: Dogus
Without getting to[sic] into this, I want to know what you think.

How does your rubbish somehow prove that I lied? I wanted to know what you think, and it's obvious YOU don't think much of anything because you haven't contributed in any way. Then you say that I'm here to "teach [my] own doctrine", which is an absolute lie and is calumny against me. I want to understand how BoD can be reconciled with dogmatic Church teaching, and for some reason it seems as though you can never cease to equivocate and give me a clear answer. Instead of using clear arguments and definitions you people whine endlessly about fallible opinions of Church Doctors and other saints and you try to get me to believe your point by leading the discussion astray with irrelevancies.

Quite frankly, I find you to be a pernicious liar whose perfidy knows no constraint. You're actually willing to sit here, accuse me and tell lies about me, all the while lying yourself.

Did you know that I'm still waiting for an answer to my 2 questions which NONE OF YOU bothered to answer in a way that made any sense? I have to keep telling you people to answer my posts or else you'll keep dwelling on irrelevancies like geocentrism and Fr. Feeney and so on. Here are my 2 questions which have not been properly answered by anyone. Instead of trying to help me, your bad will has led you to attack me and calumniate me. I know that you're getting frustrated that you can't provide valid answers to my questions, but that's no excuse for you to lie about me.

I'm still waiting:

Quote
What I would like to know is whether or not natural water is absolutely necessary for a person to be baptized, and whether or not baptism (with water) is absolutely necessary for salvation.

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I'd like to know if those who have not received the Sacrament of baptism can be considered inside of the Church? Can we say that those who are "baptised by desire" are apart of the faithful?

Why are you people not answering my questions?

You're as nutty as a fruitcake, Dogus. I didn't bring up Fr. Feeney nor geocentrism. You started this thread to argue your position on BOD, which is opposed to both Trent and multiple approved theologians and Doctors of the Church.

I have little patience with your kind. You're a temerarious fool and should be ignored.

Daegus · « **Reply #79 on:** August 21, 2011, 06:24:43 PM »

I give up on discussing baptism of desire.

You guys are right. That's it.

roscoe · « **Reply #80 on:** August 21, 2011, 07:10:56 PM »

All of 'us' are right?