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Author Topic: Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)  (Read 5239 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

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Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)
« on: June 29, 2023, 04:25:45 PM »
I have read the first 128pp. of Fr. Wirth's book on Divine Grace (1903), and his is a classic example of an author who promotes 3 baptisms, and then 40 pages later contradicts what he previously said.  I give a few citations from his book:

Three Baptisms
"Baptism, according to the words of our Lord, 'Unless a man is born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, so that no one can be saved without it. Only in case that it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water, the intense desire of it, joined with perfect contrition — that is, sorrow for sin out of the love of God, can replace it ; this is called the Baptism of desire....These are extraordinary ways of receiving the grace of justification ; the ordinary manner is by the Baptism of water. The Baptism of desire and the Baptism of blood give sanctifying grace only when the Baptism of water is impossible." (91-92)

The Necessity of Faith
"Faith is therefore so necessary that one cannot be saved, even if it is without any fault of his own that he has not faith. Such a one is not disposed for eternal life, and he cannot obtain it any more than a man can see without eyes. Grown persons, i.e. they who have attained the use of reason, must not only have the virtue of faith, but they must also exercise certain acts of faith, in order to obtain eternal salvation." (127)

ibid
"We cannot seek God without knowing that He exists, and we shall not seek Him unless we expect a reward from Him for our fidelity. These two things must therefore be believed explicitly by every adult, so that if one is ignorant of them, he cannot be saved even if it be without his fault that he is ignorant of them." (128)

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2023, 04:53:57 PM »
The Baptism of desire and the Baptism of blood give sanctifying grace only when the Baptism of water is impossible." (91-92)

This is another bizarre twist on BoD/BoB theory.  When does Baptism of water become "impossible"?  Of course, in our "Feeneyite" way of thinking the answer is never.  But in their view, this would have to mean that they only become justified at the very moment of death, since it would only then be "impossible".  So I have perfect contrition, an intense desire to receive Baptism, etc. for days before my death.  And then at the moment of my death, even though my dispositions are identical to what they were before, then "presto" I get justified.  So this turns BoD into some bizarre ex opere operato scenario.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2023, 05:04:26 PM »
The Necessity of Faith:
"Faith is therefore so necessary that one cannot be saved, even if it is without any fault of his own that he has not faith. Such a one is not disposed for eternal life, and he cannot obtain it any more than a man can see without eyes. Grown persons, i.e. they who have attained the use of reason, must not only have the virtue of faith, but they must also exercise certain acts of faith, in order to obtain eternal salvation." (127)

This is a good citation for Sean, who rejected the notion that someone who was baptized an infant, yet raised an atheist, would lose the state of grace upon reaching the age of reason and not exercising concrete acts of faith.

I'm not sure that these texts are in contradiction, however, as one speaks to the lack of the Sacrament of Baptism, the other to the absence of faith.  Of course, many then take the next step and, while saying that faith is necessary, hold that faith can be "implicit" in some generic desire to do what God wants.

Re: Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2023, 06:26:16 PM »
This is another bizarre twist on BoD/BoB theory.  When does Baptism of water become "impossible"?  Of course, in our "Feeneyite" way of thinking the answer is never.  But in their view, this would have to mean that they only become justified at the very moment of death, since it would only then be "impossible".  So I have perfect contrition, an intense desire to receive Baptism, etc. for days before my death.  And then at the moment of my death, even though my dispositions are identical to what they were before, then "presto" I get justified.  So this turns BoD into some bizarre ex opere operato scenario.
I once had it explained to me by Father Ringrose.  I hope I can explain the basic idea of what he said properly.

Baptism of desire does not save almost anyone.  It is like a perfect act of contrition.  Both are very rare.

The idea is that a catechumen who believes the Catholic Faith but dies suddenly before being baptized would still be saved because he desired and planned to be baptized just as a Catholic who died after committing a mortal sin but made a perfect act of contrition and desired to confess would still be able to save his soul even if he did not make it to confession.

Re: Fr. Edmund Wirth Book: "Divine Grace" (1903)
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2023, 06:35:50 PM »
I have read the first 128pp. of Fr. Wirth's book on Divine Grace (1903), and his is a classic example of an author who promotes 3 baptisms, and then 40 pages later contradicts what he previously said.  I give a few citations from his book:

Three Baptisms:
"Baptism, according to the words of our Lord, 'Unless a man is born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, so that no one can be saved without it. Only in case that it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water, the intense desire of it, joined with perfect contrition — that is, sorrow for sin out of the love of God, can replace it ; this is called the Baptism of desire....These are extraordinary ways of receiving the grace of justification ; the ordinary manner is by the Baptism of water. The Baptism of desire and the Baptism of blood give sanctifying grace only when the Baptism of water is impossible." (91-92)

The Necessity of Faith:
"Faith is therefore so necessary that one cannot be saved, even if it is without any fault of his own that he has not faith. Such a one is not disposed for eternal life, and he cannot obtain it any more than a man can see without eyes. Grown persons, i.e. they who have attained the use of reason, must not only have the virtue of faith, but they must also exercise certain acts of faith, in order to obtain eternal salvation." (127)

ibid:
"We cannot seek God without knowing that He exists, and we shall not seek Him unless we expect a reward from Him for our fidelity. These two things must therefore be believed explicitly by every adult, so that if one is ignorant of them, he cannot be saved even if it be without his fault that he is ignorant of them." (128)
I think the idea here is that justification by "baptism of desire" applies only for those who submit to the basic articles of the Faith and desire and plan to receive Baptism but die before receiving it...

In other words...  A random ignorant person would not be saved by "baptism of desire" because he could not know the Faith or desire Baptism.