Author Topic: For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE. (Read 9941 times)

Oremus · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:19:30 AM »

Quote from: Gregory I

I forgot this:

1917 Code of Canon Law

The concept of baptism of desire has been incorporated into canon law.

“Baptism, the door and foundation of the Sacraments, in fact or at least in desire necessary unto salvation for all, is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water with the prescribed form of words.” (Canon 737)

Help me with this one because it appears to confirm the necessity of water.

"is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water..."

Oremus · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:36:51 AM »

And please let me clarify my stance: I am not trying to be stubborn. I do recognize that BOD may be possible.

But the arguments I've read are vague and sometimes seem to be a stretch of interpretations. If I were to see a clear teaching from a Pope or dogmatic council in favor of BOD, I would certainly adhere. I just don't believe I've seen that yet.

Interestingly enough, I found a quote from then Cardinal Ratzinger where he says "Feeneyites" should not be considered heretics:

"With regards to those who hold strictly the absolute necessity of water baptism, it would be quite wrong to charge them with heretical constructs. As they merely assert that which was the near-universal consensus of the Patristic era, such a charge would be proximate to condemning all but a few of the Fathers as heterodox. (Der Glaube das Pimmelkopfgelauben, Communio April 1997 p 13. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.)"

Raoul76 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:13:05 PM »

That's because Modernists are a sewer-drain of all errors. If you are going to him for the truth, you are in bad shape!

The Feeneyites only need to understand one thing: Saying "You must be baptized with water" DOES NOT mean that there is no baptism of desire. If I said "You must confess your sins" it doesn't mean there isn't perfect contrition. If I say "Don't work on Sunday" that doesn't mean you can't do it if you have to feed your family and there is no other option.

What is it about letter vs. spirit of the law that isn't sinking in?

What do you expect the Church to say, "All Catholics must be baptized with water, except those who die as catechumens who have desire and those who are martyred who have baptism of blood." No. Read between the lines. It is speaking generally, all must be baptized. Theologians then interpret the general statements of the Church, and they interpreted them in favor of baptism of desire.

Matthew · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:18:37 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Theologians then interpret the general statements of the Church, and they interpreted them in favor of baptism of desire.

The problem is when every doofus with an Internet connection starts to fancy himself a theologian :)

Oremus · « **Reply #29 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:18:01 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

What do you expect the Church to say, "All Catholics must be baptized with water, except those who die as catechumens who have desire and those who are martyred who have baptism of blood." No. Read between the lines. It is speaking generally, all must be baptized. Theologians then interpret the general statements of the Church, and they interpreted them in favor of baptism of desire.

Actually that would be great. Whats wrong with doing that?

It's not my duty to read between the lines, nor am I equipped to do so. If the Church wants me to believe in BOD, why hasn't It been dogmatically defined?