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Author Topic: For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.  (Read 9956 times)

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For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2012, 02:09:01 AM »
Yes, it condemns two scenarios:

What LP said about baptism with invalid matter.

It also condemns those who say they can receive justification without water baptism. I.E. Protestant heretics.

Anyone who believes that, and denies their obligation to be baptized, cannot have BOD, for they mock the sacrament and the precept of our Lord that none are saved without it.

If anyone is to be saved either through Baptism itself or Baptism of desire, they must acknowledge their obligation to receive it.

For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2012, 02:15:42 AM »
I forgot this:

 1917 Code of Canon Law
 
The concept of baptism of desire has been incorporated into canon law.
 
“Baptism, the door and foundation of the Sacraments, in fact or at least in desire necessary unto salvation for all, is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water with the prescribed form of words.” (Canon 737)


For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2012, 02:45:52 AM »
Since St.John is quoted, it is well to remember that both the beloved disciple and Christ Himself confirm the Catholic doctrine of perfect contrition.

Quote
1 Jn 4:7,16 Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God ... and he that abideth in charity, abideth in God, and God in him.

Jn 14:23 Jesus answered, and said to him: If any one love Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and will make Our abode with him.


These words show that justifying grace is conferred on account of pure love of God, which is the first and greatest commandment. This is why even St.Paul ranks charity (1 Cor 13:13) as the most excellent among the virtues.

It appears to me that most of those who agree with Fr.Feeney do so out of some concern, understandable but in my opinion, misguided, that if we accept BOD than we won't proclaim the necessity of the sacrament to the unbaptized. But nothing could be further from the truth, as the lives of the Saints who accepted the doctrine show.

Also, it can be disproved by analogy with the other sacraments and their corresponding extraordinary means. No Catholic who makes frequent acts of love for God will ever, ever, find himself disparaging the sacrament of penance as a result when it becomes possible for him to reach a priest. Likewise, those who communicate spiritually will never find scorn the Holy Eucharist when they are able to receive it. Similarly, only if approach to baptism is morally or physically impossible, will the desire to receive it suffice. Otherwise, that same desire will manifest itself in actual approach to the sacrament.

I believe, on the authority of both St.Augustine and St.Thomas, by the way, that the like incident happened to Cornelius. He received the Holy Ghost before baptism, as the text says, and as the Doctors comment on the passage, but was impelled to receive the sacrament nonetheless since this was possible to him.

For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2012, 09:13:31 AM »
Quote from: s2srea
:cheers:


 :cheers:

For those who believe in WATER BAPTISM ALONE.
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2012, 09:16:44 AM »
Quote from: LordPhan
Quote from: Oremus
Quote from: s2srea
Quote from: Gregory I
SO you don't believe the teaching of the Church, just scripture?


No, I believe scripture as interpreted by the Church. I agree with you. I disagree with Oremus who's seeming to imply that one is not able to be saved via BOD; and he sounds just like a protestant quoting scripture without reference to Church interpretation.


Wow, I actually did sound like a Protestant. Unintended.  :facepalm:

Ok, how about the Council of Trent?

CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.


This Canon is in relation to those who were suggesting that one could baptise someone with beer or oil. It was to condemn them.

If performing the sacrament one must use clear and natural water. That is what this means. In no way does it deny BoD or BoB. In fact this Canon is almost a direct quote from the Summa Theologica of Saint Thomas Aquinas, wherein it also states that not only are there 3 Baptisms of Water, of Blood and of the Holy Ghost(Desire) it also states that Baptism of Blood is the greatest of the 3.

At the Council of Trent they had the Summa Theologica beside the Vulgate. It was THE reference for them. Not too surprising since Summa Theologica literally would be translated as "Everything about Theology" by St. Thomas Aquinas.



I could understand that argument if the canon stopped at "that tue and natural is not of necessity for baptism," but it continues: "unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema."