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Author Topic: For Last Trad: Did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire?"  (Read 2528 times)

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Offline Nishant Xavier

Re: For Last Trad: Did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire?"
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 11:06:21 AM »
Clemens Maria, I've seen your post, and will respond when I have time. I briefly skimmed through the video but couldn't see the point Br. Dimond was making. Can you briefly summarize it, please? 

I agree the other senses of Scripture are predicated on the literal. But we cannot tell the Church, when She authorizes one interpretation of Scripture, that we are rejecting that interpretation.

That seems like Protestantism. You said in another thread that dogmas should not be interpreted, but you agreed Scripture certainly needs an interpreter. Every commentary I've seen says Cornelius received the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire. If Br. Dimond has any commentary that shows otherwise, I'll take a look at it.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: For Last Trad: Did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire?"
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2021, 11:14:32 AM »
Quote from: XavierSem on February 19, 2021, 05:55:36 AM
Quote
He sent St. Peter to baptize him because after the promulgation of the Gospel, without the sacrament, even a just man could not have entered the kingdom of God - per God's own divine revelation in John 3:5.

Trent doesn't interpret John 3:5 like that. It interprets John 3:5 in the context of justification i.e. becoming just.

Trent says, since the promulgation of the Gospel, per John 3:5 no one is justified without Baptism or its Desire.

Trent also says this:

Quote
Pope Paul III, The Council of Trent, Can. 2 on the Sacrament of Baptism, Sess. 7, 1547, ex cathedra:  “If anyone shall say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ: ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit’ [John 3:5], are distorted into some sort of metaphor: let him be anathema.”

This specifically addresses your concern that both John 3:5 and Trent itself be "interpreted" correctly.  The truth is that they don't need to be interpreted.  The literal meaning is the meaning that we are bound by.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: For Last Trad: Did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire?"
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2021, 11:20:24 AM »
The video proves from Sacred Scripture, the popes and the fathers of the Church that Cornelius was not justified prior to the reception of the Sacrament of Baptism.  From the same sources it also proves that justification prior to the reception of the Sacrament is impossible.  It's an amazing video.  Absolutely packed with scriptural and dogmatic quotes.  You could meditate on it for hours or days.
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Offline Clemens Maria

Re: For Last Trad: Did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit through Baptism of Desire?"
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2021, 11:21:55 AM »
It is very fast-paced.  You may need to use the pause button to read the quotes and let them sink in.
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