Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism  (Read 1328 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WorldsAway

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 907
  • Reputation: +725/-86
  • Gender: Male
For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism
« on: October 07, 2025, 07:14:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As these quotes have been scattered throughout the Boru = Salza and have so far received no acknowledgement from either Boru or Justinian..I am providing them again, here, in a neat and orderly fashion


    Quote
    [T]he sacrament of baptism is consecrated in water at the invocation of the undivided Trinity — namely Father, Son and holy Spirit — and brings salvation to both children and adults when it is correctly carried out by anyone in the form laid down by the church

    Fourth Lateran Council

    Quote
    All are faithfully to profess that there is one baptism which regenerates all those baptized in Christ, just as there is one God and one faith’. We believe that when baptism is administered in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit, it is a perfect means of salvation for both adults and children. Yet because, as regards the effect of baptism in children, we find that certain theologians have held contrary opinions, some saying that by baptism guilt is indeed remitted in infants but grace is not conferred, others on the contrary asserting that both guilt is remitted and the virtues and sanctifying grace are infused with regard to habit though for the time being not with regard to use, we, considering the general efficacy of Christ’s death, which through baptism is applied in like manner to all the baptised, choose, with the approval of the sacred council, the second opinion, which says that sanctifying grace and the virtues are conferred in baptism on both infants and adults, as more probable and more in harmony with the words of the saints and of modern doctors of theology.

    Council of Vienne

    Quote
    Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. But we do not deny that true baptism is conferred by the following words: May this servant of Christ be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit; or, This person is baptized by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. Since the holy Trinity is the principle cause from which baptism has its power and the minister is the instrumental cause who exteriorly bestows the sacrament, the sacrament is conferred if the action is performed by the minister with the invocation of the holy Trinity. The minister of this sacrament is a priest, who is empowered to baptize in virtue of his office. But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the church and intends to do what the church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God

    Council of Basel-Ferrara-Florence
    SESSION 8 22 November 1439 [Bull of union with the Armenians]

    Quote
    Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood; and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot. Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin; and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God ? It is he, Jesus Christ who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony–Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. In other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others. The reason is that it is by this faith that the catholic church lives and grows, by believing that neither the humanity is without true divinity nor the divinity without true humanity.

    Pope St. Leo the Great
    Dogmatic Letter to Flavian, Bishop of Constantinople
    Council of Chalcedon

    Quote
    On Baptism

    CANON II.-If any one saith, that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and, on that account, wrests, to some sort of metaphor, those words of our Lord Jesus Christ; Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost; let him be anathema.

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is free, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.

    Council of Trent

    Quote
    This kingdom is spiritual and is concerned with spiritual things. That this is so the above quotations from Scripture amply prove, and Christ by his own action confirms it. On many occasions, when the Jews and even the Apostles wrongly supposed that the Messiah would restore the liberties and the kingdom of Israel, he repelled and denied such a suggestion. When the populace thronged around him in admiration and would have acclaimed him King, he shrank from the honor and sought safety in flight. Before the Roman magistrate he declared that his kingdom was not of this world. The gospels present this kingdom as one which men prepare to enter by penance, and cannot actually enter except by faith and by baptism, which, though an external rite, signifies and produces an interior regeneration. This kingdom is opposed to none other than to that of Satan and to the power of darkness. It demands of its subjects a spirit of detachment from riches and earthly things, and a spirit of gentleness. They must hunger and thirst after justice, and more than this, they must deny themselves and carry the cross.

    Pope Pius XI, Quas Primas

    Quote
    Nor is it to be wondered at, that the faithful should be raised to this dignity. By the waters of baptism, as by common right, Christians are made members of the Mystical Body of Christ the Priest, and by the “character” which is imprinted on their souls, they are appointed to give worship to God. Thus they participate, according to their condition, in the priesthood of Christ.

    Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei

    Quote
    How serious and grave would be the reasons for anxiety and anguish had the Church’s spiritual care been lacking or found wanting in the past or the present! The disasters would have been more lamentable than those of the tragic days of St Augustine! Then, the Bishop of Hippo insistently urged his priests not to leave their flocks without pastors during the oppressive catastrophes. He reminded them what benefits their presence would bring and what havoc would inevitably follow if their flocks were abandoned.
    When the priests are absent, what ruin for those who must leave this world either unbaptized or still chained by sin! What sadness for their friends, who will not have them as companions in the repose of eternal life! What grief for all, and whet blasphemy by some, due to the absence of the priest and of his ministry.
    One can readily understand what the dread of passing evils can do, and what great eternal evil follows! On the other hand, when the priests are at their posts they help everyone with all the strength the Lord has given them. Some are baptized, others make their peace with God. None is deprived of receiving the Body of Christ in Communion; all are consoled, edified and urged to pray to God, Who can wand off all dangers!

    Pope Pius XII, Exsul Familia Nazarethana

    Quote
    Now, if we cannot expect to reap a harvest when no seed has been planted, how can we hope to have a people with sound morals if Christian doctrine has not been imparted to them in due time? It follows, too, that if faith languishes in our days, if among large numbers it has almost vanished, the reason is that the duty of catechetical teaching is either fulfilled very superficially or altogether neglected. It will not do to say, in excuse, that faith is a free gift of God bestowed upon each one at Baptism. True enough, when we are baptized in Christ, the habit of faith is given, but this most divine seed, if left entirely to itself, by its own power, so to speak, is not like the mustard seed which “grows up. . . and puts out great branches.”[20] Man has the faculty of understanding at his birth, but he also has need of his mother’s word to awaken it, as it were, and to make it active. So too, the Christian, born again of water and the Holy Spirit, has faith within him, but he requires the word of the teaching Church to nourish and develop it and to make it bear fruit. Thus wrote the Apostle: “Faith then depends on hearing, and hearing on the word of Christ”;[21] and to show the necessity of instruction, he added, “How are they to hear, if no one preaches?”

    Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis

    Quote
    VI. In cases of urgency other times are allowable for baptism.
    Wherefore, as it is quite clear that these two seasons of which we have been speaking are the rightful ones for baptizing the chosen in Church, we admonish you, beloved, not to add other days to this observance. Because, although there are other festivals also to which much reverence is due in God's honour, yet we must rationally guard this principal and greatest sacrament as a deep mystery and not part of the ordinary routine : not, however, prohibiting the licence to succour those who are in danger by administering baptism to them at any time. For while we put off the vows of those who are not pressed by ill health and live in peaceful security to those two closely connected and cognate festivals, we do not at any time refuse this which is the only safeguard of true salvation to any one in peril of death, in the crisis of a siege, in the distress of persecution, in the terror of shipwreck.

    Pope St. Leo the Great, Letter 16

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Boru

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 447
    • Reputation: +169/-249
    • Gender: Female
    Re: For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism
    « Reply #1 on: October 07, 2025, 08:50:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As these quotes have been scattered throughout the Boru = Salza and have so far received no acknowledgement from either Boru or Justinian..I am providing them again, here, in a neat and orderly fashion
    I, Boru (not Salza, or Sisco, or TurningPoint or a secret SSPX priest), hearby publicly acknowledge  -100% - that I agree - with my whole heart, mind and soul - as the Church is my witness - with EVERYTHING that WorldsAway has submitted in his first post on this thread.

    I especially like and call to everyone's attention the following that he kindly submitted in reference to BAPTISM:

    "It is he, Jesus Christ who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony–Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. In other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others. The reason is that it is by this faith that the catholic church lives and grows, by believing that neither the humanity is without true divinity nor the divinity without true humanity.

    Pope St. Leo the Great
    Dogmatic Letter to Flavian, Bishop of Constantinople
    Council of Chalcedon


    And isn't the following a beautiful reminder how important it is for the pastors to stay with their flock in order to instruct them in the importance of baptism and repentance of sin. For anyone can baptize another but only a priest can truly minister and teach the faith:

    "When the priests are absent, what ruin for those who must leave this world either unbaptized or still chained by sin! What sadness for their friends, who will not have them as companions in the repose of eternal life!
    What grief for all, and whet blasphemy by some, due to the absence of the priest and of his ministry.
    One can readily understand what the dread of passing evils can do, and what great eternal evil follows! On the other hand, when the priests are at their posts they help everyone with all the strength the Lord has given them. Some are baptized, others make their peace with God. None is deprived of receiving the Body of Christ in Communion; all are consoled, edified and urged to pray to God, Who can wand off all dangers!

    Pope Pius XII, Exsul Familia Nazarethana


    And how comforting when we hear the Church declare that it will never refuse anyone the Sacrament of Baptism in times of great necessity:
    "And how we do not at any time refuse this (BAPTISM) which is the only safeguard of true salvation to any one in peril of death, in the crisis of a siege, in the distress of persecution, in the terror of shipwreck." -  Pope St. Leo the Great, Letter 16

    Knowing too that if the peril we face overcomes us, our desire and intent to receive that Sacrament will be acknowledged by God as if we did receive the Sacrament: "... the shedding of blood for Christ's sake, and the inward operation of the Holy Ghost, are called baptisms, in so far as they produce the effect of the Baptism of water. Now the Baptism of Water derives its efficacy from Christ's Passion and from the Holy Ghost, as already stated . These two causes act in each of these three Baptisms (Water, Blood, Desire)..." (III.q.66.a.12)
    - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa.






    Offline WorldsAway

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 907
    • Reputation: +725/-86
    • Gender: Male
    Re: For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism
    « Reply #2 on: October 07, 2025, 09:16:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I, Boru (not Salza, or Sisco, or TurningPoint or a secret SSPX priest), hearby publicly acknowledge  -100% - that I agree - with my whole heart, mind and soul - as the Church is my witness - with EVERYTHING that WorldsAway has submitted in his first post on this thread.

    I especially like and call to everyone's attention the following that he kindly submitted in reference to BAPTISM:

    "It is he, Jesus Christ who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony–Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. In other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others. The reason is that it is by this faith that the catholic church lives and grows, by believing that neither the humanity is without true divinity nor the divinity without true humanity.

    Pope St. Leo the Great
    Dogmatic Letter to Flavian, Bishop of Constantinople
    Council of Chalcedon
    Thank you for your explicit acknowledgement of (some) and reposting (of some) of the teachings provided.

    While you did not outright say it (plausible deniability?), it is not hard to see that you take "the three" things Pope St. Leo the Great, in his Dogmatic Letter, mentions to mean baptism of desire, blood, and water. That is easily refuted if we repost and read the entirety of that section, if we do not take Dogmatic Papal teaching out of context, and if we do not twist Dogmatic Papal teaching to suit our own opinions:

    Quote
    Let him heed what the blessed apostle Peter preaches, that sanctification by the Spirit is effected by the sprinkling of Christ’s blood; and let him not skip over the same apostle’s words, knowing that you have been redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your fathers, not with corruptible gold and silver but by the precious blood of Jesus Christ, as of a lamb without stain or spot. Nor should he withstand the testimony of blessed John the apostle: and the blood of Jesus, the Son of God, purifies us from every sin; and again, This is the victory which conquers the world, our faith. Who is there who conquers the world save one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God ? It is he, Jesus Christ who has come through water and blood, not in water only, but in water and blood. And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies. For there are three who give testimony–Spirit and water and blood. And the three are one. In other words, the Spirit of sanctification and the blood of redemption and the water of baptism. These three are one and remain indivisible. None of them is separable from its link with the others. The reason is that it is by this faith that the catholic church lives and grows, by believing that neither the humanity is without true divinity nor the divinity without true humanity.
    Pope St. Leo the Great
    Dogmatic Letter to Flavian, Bishop of Constantinople
    Council of Chalcedon
    The SPIRIT is the Holy Ghost
    The BLOOD is Our Lord and His Sacrifice
    The WATER is the water of baptism, the sacrament of baptism


    Would you like to specifically acknowledge and respond to the Infallible teachings from the Ecuмenical Councils I posted?

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Justinian

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 85
    • Reputation: +45/-46
    • Gender: Female
    Re: For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism
    « Reply #3 on: October 07, 2025, 01:58:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you for your explicit acknowledgement of (some) and reposting (of some) of the teachings provided.

    While you did not outright say it (plausible deniability?), it is not hard to see that you take "the three" things Pope St. Leo the Great, in his Dogmatic Letter, mentions to mean baptism of desire, blood, and water. That is easily refuted if we repost and read the entirety of that section, if we do not take Dogmatic Papal teaching out of context, and if we do not twist Dogmatic Papal teaching to suit our own opinions:
    The SPIRIT is the Holy Ghost
    The BLOOD is Our Lord and His Sacrifice
    The WATER is the water of baptism, the sacrament of baptism


    Would you like to specifically acknowledge and respond to the Infallible teachings from the Ecuмenical Councils I posted?
    Not ignoring you, still processing information. Or as my tech minded son says, ‘I’m rebooting’ 😀 or when I want him to empty the dishwasher ‘I’m malfunctioning’🤣

    Offline Mark 79

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13384
    • Reputation: +8786/-1623
    • Gender: Male
    Re: For Boru & Justinian: Church Councils & Popes on Water Baptism
    « Reply #4 on: October 07, 2025, 02:06:37 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Subversives, hear this.

    The Vatican Council (the only one) explained the narrow sphere of papal infallibility.

    A true Pope must invoke his privilege as the teacher of all Christians to define a matter of Faith and/or Morals binding all Christians to submit to the teaching.

    Stop pretending that your pull quotes nullify the exact Words of Jesus Christ (John 3:5) and the Council of Florence.

    In demoting Extraordinary Magisterium and promoting non-Magisterium as authoritative, you make yourself manifest heretics.

    Excuse me while I gather kindling.