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Author Topic: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD  (Read 22246 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2022, 11:25:10 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on July 14, 2022, 11:21:03 AM
What "heresy" is that exactly?
Pelagianism, for one.
Two: the belief that souls can be saved without baptism outside of the Church.
Three: that there are three baptisms, not one: "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." [Ephesians 4:5]

Quote from: Stubborn on July 14, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
True, yet aside from a BOD, they profess the Catholic faith - so I would not say *they* are heretics, rather simply mistaken. I would say they are heretics as my personal opinion, if they persist in promoting the idea as LOT did a few years ago when he blindly flooded the place with BOD propaganda for months. That was really something. I thought he flipped his lid or something for a while - it was that extreme.
Right. I'm not saying anyone in particular in this thread is overtly a heretic. One only becomes a heretic when they've been shown repeatedly the truth on the matter and persist in the error that souls can be saved without baptism. You see this, unfortunately, with a lot of invincible ignorance-BOD adherents.
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2022, 11:25:38 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on July 14, 2022, 11:21:03 AM
What "heresy" is that exactly?
Denying a single doctrine of the Church is the sin of heresy, in this case the doctrine being denied is John 3:5.
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2022, 11:36:06 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on July 14, 2022, 11:23:30 AM
True, yet aside from a BOD, they profess the Catholic faith - so I would not say *they* are heretics, rather simply mistaken. I would say they are heretics as my personal opinion, if they persist in promoting the idea as LOT did a few years ago when he blindly flooded the place with BOD propaganda for months. That was really something. I thought he flipped his lid or something for a while - it was that extreme.

Stubborn,

Just to be clear, you would say not say St. Thomas of Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Alphonsus - I'll stop there - were in your personal opinion heretics, right? Only people who "persist in promoting the idea"? Not sure how one parses that, but . . . 

DR
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2022, 11:41:25 AM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on July 14, 2022, 11:25:10 AM

Pelagianism, for one.
Two: the belief that souls can be saved without baptism outside of the Church.
Three: that there are three baptisms, not one: "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." [Ephesians 4:5]
Right. I'm not saying anyone in particular in this thread is overtly a heretic. One only becomes a heretic when they've been shown repeatedly the truth on the matter and persist in the error that souls can be saved without baptism. You see this, unfortunately, with a lot of invincible ignorance-BOD adherents.

DL,

Right, no one can be saved outside the Church. So, Pelagians or anyone who asserts otherwise, sure. Although some may say "outside" and only mean they are not formal members of the body - like I think of the Pius X catechism, which says "outside" but then also says they are united to the soul of the Church, thus not really "outside." That was just some sloppy language.

So, if, say, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Alphonus, St. Thomas of Aquinas, were to read this or some other threads in the ghetto here and be "shown repeatedly" what I guess they didn't consider or were not exposed to, they would be persisting in heresy and heretics?

DR
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2022, 11:42:51 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on July 14, 2022, 11:36:06 AM
Stubborn,

Just to be clear, you would say not say St. Thomas of Aquinas, St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Alphonsus - I'll stop there - were in your personal opinion heretics, right? Only people who "persist in promoting the idea"? Not sure how one parses that, but . . .

DR
Not Stubborn, but there's a distinction here. Ss. Thomas and Alphonsus taught that SOME CATECHUMENS may be saved through BOD, BUT they would go to Purgatory before entering the Kingdom. I disagree with them, but it isn't heresy because catechumens are still visible members of the Church. And it's a very narrow margin that MAY be saved by it.

Modern BOD heretics believe that ANYONE can be saved by BOD, including those outside of the Body, such as infidels (Jєωs, pagans, Muslims, etc) which is DIRECTLY CONTRARY to defined DOGMA on EENS.
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