Author Topic: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD (Read 22208 times)

2Vermont · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2022, 08:23:45 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn on July 12, 2022, 07:54:20 AM

ya, I guess so lol
I deserve a for that.

I was more trying to point out that he was mistaken in that regard.

But was he? [Lad: I was wrong, it was the Baltimore Catechism, not the Pius X Catechism that I saw the reference]:

Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?

A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven

Yeti · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2022, 09:09:40 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 12, 2022, 07:23:52 AM

I've actually articulated the same type of position which makes sense of what otherwise would appear to be a contradiction in St. Ambrose.

https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/patristic-support-for-ladilausian-soteriology/

"Ladislausian Soteriology"???! So you propound a new theological idea and name it after yourself ... don't you see that this puts you in company that you, um, probably don't want to be in? Can't you just read the catechism book and accept it with a simple, childlike faith?

2Vermont · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2022, 09:17:40 AM »

Quote from: Yeti on July 12, 2022, 09:09:40 AM

"Ladislausian Soteriology"???! So you propound a new theological idea and name it after yourself ... don't you see that this puts you in company that you, um, probably don't want to be in? Can't you just read the catechism book and accept it with a simple, childlike faith?

But are the catechisms really clear on this? One minute it seems to say that one can be saved via BOD, and other times it says that one cannot enter Heaven without baptism [and water baptism is implied...see my previous post].

I believe that one day [God willing], the Church will have to definitively teach BOD solemnly through its extraordinary magisterium, so the Church teaching is clear.

Stubborn · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2022, 09:23:46 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on July 12, 2022, 08:23:45 AM

But was he? [Lad: I was wrong, it was the Baltimore Catechism, not the Pius X Catechism that I saw the reference]:

Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?

A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven

Later on in the book, he says:
"Baptism is necessary for salvation by a necessity of both means and precept for adults, who are not yet baptized.
Unbaptized infants who die go to Limbo. Notice, they do not go to Hell. Also notice, they do not go to Heaven.
Unbaptized adults who die go to Hell. Notice they do not go either to Limbo or to Heaven."

And

"There is only one Baptism. And every baptized baby is a subject of our Holy Father the Pope. (When you go to Heaven, most of the Americans you meet will be under seven years of age!)"

Yeti · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2022, 09:24:58 AM »

Quote from: 2Vermont on July 12, 2022, 09:17:40 AM

But are the catechisms really clear on this? One minute it seems to say that one can be saved via BOD, and other times it says that one cannot enter Heaven without baptism [and water baptism is implied...see my previous post].

I believe that one day [God willing], the Church will have to definitively teach BOD solemnly through its extraordinary magisterium, so the Church teaching is clear.

What you quoted was talking about unbaptized infants and how they go to Limbo if they die. Baptism of Desire only applies to adults, since only adults (i.e., those with the use of reason) can desire anything.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD (Read 22208 times)

2Vermont

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD

Yeti

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD

2Vermont

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD

Stubborn

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD

Yeti

Re: Father Feeney on Trent (Session VI, Chapter 4) or the Catechism of Trent on BOD