Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: False BOD is Foundational to VatII  (Read 10343 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: False BOD is Foundational to VatII
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2021, 04:51:25 PM »
Same advice to you as Pax . . . focus.

I'm quoting St. Alphonsus for crying out loud, or referring to Trent.

Follow the discussion and please don't hit your Feeneyite "default" modernist, implicit BOD line/response. Read the St. Alphonsus quotes, what he said, and which I'm discussing.  
Nothing to focus on, you are at the very least a poor communicator. I have no time to play child's games. Unless you spell out clearly what you want to say, there is no point in continuing this charade.

Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: False BOD is Foundational to VatII
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2021, 06:08:36 PM »

.
I believe that 1) it isn't his full view or 2) he was simply wrong.  

And we know you won't bother to find out if it was 1).

And if it's 2) he was not only wrong but a heretic . . . poor Alphonsus.

Oh well. The Feenyite ball is in the air . . .

Adios.


Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: False BOD is Foundational to VatII
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2021, 06:10:20 PM »
I have no time to play child's games . .  .  there is no point in continuing this charade.

Success: we do agree on something.

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: False BOD is Foundational to VatII
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2021, 07:00:35 PM »
Decem(Ir)rational,
If St Alphonsus is correct (or, your understanding of him), then Trent is wrong.  
.
If St Alphonsus is correct, then St Augustine, St Thomas, St Bellarmine and many Church Fathers are wrong. 
.
If St Alphonsus is correct, then where is the historical, consistent, Traditional record to back him up? Doctrines do not appear out of thin air...they MUST be traced to Apostolic Times.  So where is the link, across 17 centuries?  
.
The contrary view, that of explicit desire for baptism and to enter the church, is readily shown and quite consistent, especially in Trent. 
.
St Alphonsus died during the time of the French Revolution and in the height of Protestantism.  Are you saying he was immune from all errors of the day?  Is any human soul immune from the errors of his day?  No

Online Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: False BOD is Foundational to VatII
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2021, 11:28:53 PM »
Decem, you're completely (and it would seem, deliberately, since this has been pointed out) distorting the opinion of St. Alphonsus.  St. Alphonsus, as quoted by Last Trad, and even by pro-BoD-zealot XavierSem, clearly held that explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation were necessary for salvation.  In terms of his allowing for Rewarder God theory to be considered a possible opinion (that is what the term "probable" means in theology, that it has some possibility of being true) was simply wrong and contradicts a ruling from the Holy Office about which he appeared to be unaware.  This requirement for explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation were taught and believed universally by the entire Church for nearly 1600 years, and if that doesn't qualify as an infallible teaching of the OUM, then there's no such thing as an infallible teaching of the OUM.  Of course, the infallibility of the OUM had not yet been defined, which is why he was mistaken on this point.  So he was mistaken in not denouncing Rewarder God theory as heresy.  It is in fact heresy by every theological standard.  It is not heresy not to assign the proper theological note to something ... just a mistake.  He didn't actually believe in Rewarder God theory himself.

As I've pointed out a dozen times now, it is Rewarder God theory which I denounce as heretical.  I have never denounced BoD as heretical, but rather its false extension to infidels, those without explicit Catholic faith.

So you distort the teaching of St. Alphonsus, and distort my position at the same time.  Even XavierSem acknowledges what St. Alphonsus taught about this matter, and agrees that the requirement of explicit faith in these core mysteries is definable as dogma.