Author Topic: False BOD is Foundational to VatII (Read 10367 times)

DecemRationis · « **Reply #75 on:** April 19, 2021, 02:58:17 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on April 19, 2021, 12:05:07 PM

I'm not interested in debating this endlessly for every new person that jumps on the "non-Catholics are saved" bandwagon.

If you believe that, then go for it. But then, since there's no salvation outside the Church, then non-Catholics can be in the Church, and therefore you can make haste back to the Novus Ordo, since you no longer have any theological justification for rejecting any of the Vatican II teachings, certainly not enough to justify severing communion with the Holy See.

Join the focus line behind Pax and Tradhican.

Deal with the St. Alphonsus's quotes and relevant questions in light of, which you apparently won't address. I'm not looking for a long dissertation on BOD, but a discussion of specific St. Alphonsus quotes and their significance in light of Trent, etc.

I realize that's a problem for you, but still . . . don't stuff another straw man, like the ones you love to burn.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #76 on:** April 19, 2021, 03:01:12 PM »

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I'm focusing on what St. Alphonsus said.

You're the one that needs to focus. It's been pointed out, about 10x in the last month, on various St Alphonsus threads, that he said contradictory things. You've posted on most of these threads, so either you didn't read the whole thread or you didn't understand it.
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One one hand, St Alphonsus agrees with Trent, St Thomas and the Church Fathers...on the other hand, he explains salvation very sentimentally and modernistically. It's obvious which quotes are orthodox. There's no need to discuss it further.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #77 on:** April 19, 2021, 03:09:23 PM »

Lad,

For example, you never touched the fact that St. Alphonsus clearly believed in implicit BOD. Even if he believed explicit faith in the Trinity and Incarnation was needed for salvation, that has nothing to do with the sacraments.

What does his belief in implicit BOD do to your view about the necessity of the sacraments, since someone can have an implicit BOD without being conscious of the sacrament, of which he is unaware - as St. Alphonsus notes.

It's a huge problem for you if St. Alphonsus meets your definition of a heretic who denies what you describe as "the necessity of the sacraments," which is de fide . . . but in what sense? St. Alphonsus clearly doesn't hold your sense.

I understand this is a huge problem for you, but if you can't address maybe you should rethink a view that results in St. Alphonsus = heretic.

DecemRationis · « **Reply #78 on:** April 19, 2021, 03:13:17 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 19, 2021, 03:01:12 PM

You're the one that needs to focus. It's been pointed out, about 10x in the last month, on various St Alphonsus threads, that he said contradictory things. You've posted on most of these threads, so either you didn't read the whole thread or you didn't understand it.
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One one hand, St Alphonsus agrees with Trent, St Thomas and the Church Fathers...on the other hand, he explains salvation very sentimentally and modernistically. It's obvious which quotes are orthodox. There's no need to discuss it further.

See my last post to Lad. I don't think he ever contradicted himself on implicit BOD, for example. Where is the necessity for the sacraments with implicit BOD?

Also, I haven't had the time to go through all the quotes that Tradhican posted from St. Alphonsus but I do not believe there is a contradiction there necessarily.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #79 on:** April 19, 2021, 03:14:04 PM »

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What does his belief in implicit BOD do to your view about the necessity of the sacraments,

It does nothing. It means St Alphonsus (in this quote) was contrary to Trent, which all of you love to quote. If you go bother reading Trent's entire chapter on justification, it explains VERY well, what is required.

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Author Topic: False BOD is Foundational to VatII (Read 10367 times)

DecemRationis

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Pax Vobis

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DecemRationis

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DecemRationis

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Pax Vobis

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