Author Topic: Faith of Desire (Read 4346 times)

SJB · « **Reply #45 on:** January 27, 2014, 04:18:27 PM »

Quote from: Cantrella

Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence.

You must believe ALL that has been revealed. Because you do not know ALL that has been revealed, you haven't EXPLICITLY accepted ALL that has been revealed. YOU are excused by your ignorance ON THIS POINT.

You'd better hope God will not hold you accountable for your ignorance, which appears quite culpable, if you ask me.

The Penny Catechism · « **Reply #46 on:** January 27, 2014, 05:20:31 PM »

Supernatural...

I didn't know Ladislaus if you were going to start a new thread on this subject (your response to my initial); I'll post my reaction to what comes to mind with Supernatural and conceptually using this reality as a strategy to counterbalance the demonic lures of the world and cultivate a love of God-

Preparation: Ideally, one is in the state of Grace/ detached from sin: (faith, hope, and charity)
1. Love of God - Humanly speaking, passionately seeking the well-being of another (God). Taking theory into reality. Creatively, thinking what is important to Jesus (from what He has revealed) and then be open to what is important to Him and where that may be leading me. Desire to love God unconditionally and taking responsibility for my decisions to do the right thing (courage) when it conflicts with what feels good in the present moment.
2. Sin - separates us from God. Hating sin with all of my heart, soul, mind, and strength. Cultivating sorrow for sin for the love of God. To really get into the moment and avoid making a mechanical, cold contrition, I'll make an attempt to go back in time: when I’ve hurt someone I cared about without them doing any provocation to me, because of my neglect, jealousy, misunderstanding, etc. And once enough remorse/ regret has set in, transferring that emotion to what I have actually done to offend God and to really feel sorrow for my past sins, striving to focus not on fear of hell (or placing the attention on me), but rather on the love of God. Practicing this often to cultivate having the dispositions for perfection contrition. Short prayer for grace to eradicate my chief defect and or habitual vice.

Supernaturalizing the Day: Reminders to combat desiring worldly forbidden fruit
Trent: Canons concerning justification: Session 6 January 13th 1547 (posted here as the reality that we are primary spirit and our actions here on earth have an eternal impact on the amount of 'supernatural gold' potentially:... more importantly for the love of God)
#26- If anyone says that the just ought not, in return for good works wrought in God, to expect and hope for an eternal reward from God through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if by acting rightly and keeping the divine commandments they persevere to the end: let him be anathema.
#31- If anyone says that a justified person commits sin when he does something good with a view to an eternal reward: let him be anathema.
#32. If anyone says that the good deeds of a justified person are the gifts of God, in the sense that they are not also the good merits of the one justified; or that the justified person, by the good deeds done by him through the grace of God and the merits of Jesus Christ (of whom he is a living member), does not only merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and (so long as he dies in grace) the obtaining of his own eternal life, and even an increase in glory: let him be anathema.

1. Mental Discipline: being aware of another interpretation at looking at challenging life's events so that instead of viewing a Cross as an occassion of sin, goal to re-interpret it as an opportunity to love God - Supernatural (making an act of love towards God for His sake alone).
1. Performed for the love of God (Supernatural), rather than for natural motives (ie the esteem of man/ human respect) . Making it a point beforehand to direct my intention (focused, with all of my human willpower) rather than vaguely offering my actions half-asleep at the beginning of the day (ie morning offering) to do everything for the love of God.
2. 3 eminently good works - alms, fasting, prayer ~ done for the love of God…”this I offer Thee to make an act of love towards Thee.’ Corporal/ Spiritual Works of Mercy (pray for the living and the dead, instruct the ignorant, visit the imprisoned)… an example of incorporating the strategy in the Rosary:

a.)Example 1: “O’ Heavenly Father, I offer Thee, 5 decades of the ____ mystery of the Rosary in union with the merits of Jesus and Mary for the graces that I will embrace with love, God’s will and be in perfect conformity with it in all it requires for His glory and my holiness- with the underlying motive to do so for the love of Jesus Christ…."
b.)Example 2: “O’ Eternal Father, I offer Thee, the Divine Blood that Jesus shed during the terrible torments He suffered those three long hours He hung from the Cross until He died, for the graces to free those souls in Purgatory into Heaven - whom loved Jesus most during their mortal life; because I want to show my love for You..."
c.)Example 3 (throughout the day/ memorized so that when your confronted with a cross interiorly accept, bear, and offer) - “ I accept, bear, and offer this Cross for the love of Jesus and Mary” …

3. Daily: cultivating the idea of loving God unconditionally: striving for the love that God has for “Himself” in loving God without preset criteria as to when you will go all out for Christ...

Cantarella · « **Reply #47 on:** January 27, 2014, 05:25:19 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Cantrella
Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence.

You must believe ALL that has been revealed. Because you do not know ALL that has been revealed, you haven't EXPLICITLY accepted ALL that has been revealed. YOU are excused by your ignorance ON THIS POINT.

You'd better hope God will not hold you accountable for your ignorance, which appears quite culpable, if you ask me.

You meant to quote Crossbro, :rolleyes:

I was not the one that said: "Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence".

Quote from: crossbro

Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence.

SJB · « **Reply #48 on:** January 28, 2014, 08:27:50 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Cantrella
Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence.

You must believe ALL that has been revealed. Because you do not know ALL that has been revealed, you haven't EXPLICITLY accepted ALL that has been revealed. YOU are excused by your ignorance ON THIS POINT.

You'd better hope God will not hold you accountable for your ignorance, which appears quite culpable, if you ask me.

You meant to quote Crossbro, :rolleyes:

I was not the one that said: "Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence".

Quote from: crossbro

Saying "invincible" flies in the face of the efficacy of God's omnipotence.

Yes, I did. :rolleyes:

SJB · « **Reply #49 on:** January 28, 2014, 09:12:04 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Lover of Truth
No one claims it is possible to be saved apart from a supernatural faith and perfect charity.

But you are claiming that this supernatural faith and charity can be had by heretics, schismatics, Muslims, Jews, infidels, etc. ... as if it can be somehow infused only on the basis of right conscience and good will, yada yada yada.

So you argue that since the Church teaches BoD that heretics, schismatics, Muslims, Jews, infidels, pagans can be saved. This DESPITE the Church's dogmatic definitions to the contrary. And every authoritative passage cited by Ambrose refers only to CATECHUMENS.

It is in claming that heretics, schismatics, Mulsims, Jews, infidels, and pagans can be saved that you are in fact a heretic.

Ladislaus, heretics ARE baptized, so BOD is not even an issue.

SJB · « **Reply #50 on:** January 28, 2014, 09:15:51 AM »

Quote from: The Penny Catechism

Jesus's instructions to the 12 were to 'Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel...he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Mk 16:15,16.

Yes, but you are not one of the twelve or a sucessor to the twelve. You are certainly required to provide witness to the Faith, yet it isn't required at all times and in all situations that you directly attempt to convert others.

The Penny Catechism · « **Reply #51 on:** January 28, 2014, 09:54:50 AM »

Lol, obviously.

Maybe you are better than I at converting others, but I personally suck at it.

For me, for the longest time, I have been able to amalgamate worldly success and trying to please God. I've had, for the longest time had to deal with a lot of internal contradictions. For example, human glory or more specifically wanting the esteem of others who were heathens and making money were a major motivator of why I would get up in the morning. So I could be literally trying to be cool and be submersed in pop-culture enjoying the company of friends and totally ignoring their eternal state of soul. Essentially a natural life which was the point of my first post.

In gaining material stuff in the past, I had lost my perspective that this life is one of exile and that the supernatural life, the life of spirit if of prime importance; nay it is THE great reality... one of looking at life more as a waiting room into eternity and re-shaping my purpose in this life to recognize Christ as totally necessary to me in how I live and to believe firmly and without question what He has revealed about His Faith and His Church...

So yes, I agree that context and each person's individual situation may change what you will do when the time arises. However, with legislative sin, Christians having little say anywhere, and Christ being denied in public, it is so EASY TO DO NOTHING, that for me, I have to actually fight myself not to go along with the crowd.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #52 on:** January 28, 2014, 10:10:15 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Ladislaus, heretics ARE baptized, so BOD is not even an issue.

I'm referring to the Faith of Desire, that by some vague good intentions, sincerity, or right conscience, the lack of faith can be supplied (something which heretics do not have).

That's why I entitled this thread Faith of Desire, not Baptism of Desire.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #53 on:** January 28, 2014, 10:14:26 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: SJB
Ladislaus, heretics ARE baptized, so BOD is not even an issue.

I'm referring to the Faith of Desire, that by some vague good intentions, sincerity, or right conscience, the lack of faith can be supplied (something which heretics do not have).

That's why I entitled this thread Faith of Desire, not Baptism of Desire.

The good intentions are real. Again. Faith is not supplied by BOD. One must have a supernatural Faith based upon Divine Revelation for BOD to be possible.

SJB · « **Reply #54 on:** January 28, 2014, 10:15:41 AM »

One must provide for his family, if that's his state in life. Nothing wrong with being successful there and there's no reason why one cannot do this without sinning in the process.

Also, I wasn't suggesting I'm good at converting others, but I do realize I can't do much other than provide witness to the Faith at times. The sad truth is that many today simply respect your convictions merely because they are convictions. They like to occasionaly see people with strong beliefs, but seem uninterested in the beliefs themselves.

SJB · « **Reply #55 on:** January 28, 2014, 11:10:28 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: SJB
Ladislaus, heretics ARE baptized, so BOD is not even an issue.

I'm referring to the Faith of Desire, that by some vague good intentions, sincerity, or right conscience, the lack of faith can be supplied (something which heretics do not have).

That's why I entitled this thread Faith of Desire, not Baptism of Desire.

Those truly following the natural law and following a right conscience will be led to the Faith by HIS light. This certainly isn't the result of some "vague good intentions."

Ladislaus · « **Reply #56 on:** January 28, 2014, 01:51:41 PM »

We've gone through this before, SJB. You claim that only Catholics with supernatural faith can be saved, but your concept of supernatural faith can be along the "Anonymous Christian" lines, whereby it's a purely infused virtue that they're not even aware of. In order to be saved, you need to be conscious of accepting the Catholic faith, at least in its bare material minimum. There's no such thing as a PURELY FORMAL faith without any supernatural material content. That's the very definition of subjectivism.

SJB · « **Reply #57 on:** January 28, 2014, 02:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

We've gone through this before, SJB. You claim that only Catholics with supernatural faith can be saved, but your concept of supernatural faith can be along the "Anonymous Christian" lines, whereby it's a purely infused virtue that they're not even aware of. In order to be saved, you need to be conscious of accepting the Catholic faith, at least in its bare material minimum. There's no such thing as a PURELY FORMAL faith without any supernatural material content. That's the very definition of subjectivism.

You need to accept all that has been proposed to you, which at a minimum, is the four articles we've previously discussed. There is a minority opinion that says only the first two are required, and this is not condemned.

The problem is that you cannot accept these facts.