Author Topic: Faith of Desire (Read 5237 times)

crossbro · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2014, 10:55:27 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Lover of Truth
No one claims it is possible to be saved apart from a supernatural faith and perfect charity.

But you are claiming that this supernatural faith and charity can be had by heretics, schismatics, Muslims, Jews, infidels, etc. ... as if it can be somehow infused only on the basis of right conscience and good will, yada yada yada.

So you argue that since the Church teaches BoD that heretics, schismatics, Muslims, Jews, infidels, pagans can be saved. This DESPITE the Church's dogmatic definitions to the contrary. And every authoritative passage cited by Ambrose refers only to CATECHUMENS.

It is in claming that heretics, schismatics, Mulsims, Jews, infidels, and pagans can be saved that you are in fact a heretic.

You seem to have missed what the Church teaches. Do you accept the possibility that a man can be saved apart from water?

Jesus didn't.

Cantarella · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2014, 10:55:31 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

If there's a criticism I have of some who have embarked upon the crusade on behalf of EENS, it's that it does appear as if some have succuмbed to "bitter zeal" and almost, almost I dare say, come across as relishing the fact that many are lost (because it proves them right). Nothing in the created universe can be as tragic as the loss of a soul. But it's none other than a firm belief in EENS combined with this wonderful love for souls and the desire that they be saved that leads to the great missionary zeal we have seen in the Church's history. Neither belief in EENS without love for souls nor some vague love for souls without belief EENS can inspired true missionary zeal. So it's PRECISELY out of a love for souls that we need to continue to defend a strict interpretation of EENS.

What a beautiful post, Ladislaus!. Strict adherence to EENS without a sincere love of souls is fruitless. Think for example, the great missionary St. Francis Xavier, who, with God's grace, converted and baptized thousands of people!

Winning souls for Christ by interesting others in our holy Faith should be the business and concern of every Catholic.

Jesus Christ promised: "Therefore everyone who acknowledges Me before men, I also will acknowledge him before My Father in Heaven" (Matt. 10:32)

Pope St. Gregory the Great (590-604): "No sacrifice is more acceptable to God than zeal for souls."

Although, ultimately it is not up to us to actually convert souls (it is up to the Holy Ghost to build his army on earth), we can't just give up. Perhaps God will use you as missionary for a lost soul out there. Through example and prayer, we can inform about our Faith. We need to persevere. You never know who you are going to be a missionary to, in God's greatest plan.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2014, 11:01:02 AM »

EENS is not unbearable to any who understand it in the Catholic way. It is the Catholic understanding of EENS that is unbearable to the Feeneyites.

Cantarella · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2014, 11:08:27 AM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Let me save you some time Ladislaus: I say now, have always said, and will always say that there is no salvation outside the Church. Non-Catholics cannot be saved.

It is even more twisted to claim you believe that there is no salvation outside the Church and that Non Catholics cannot be saved and then say these Non Catholics are in fact members of the Church, somehow, through INVISIBLY ties.

So we have that these good willed people, members of false religions ("through not fault of their own????"), are actually Catholic, they just don't know it. The nerve! This is a diabolical lie! :really-mad2:

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2014, 11:29:12 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: Ambrose

Let me save you some time Ladislaus: I say now, have always said, and will always say that there is no salvation outside the Church. Non-Catholics cannot be saved.

It is even more twisted to claim you believe that there is no salvation outside the Church and that Non Catholics cannot be saved and then say these Non Catholics are in fact members of the Church, somehow, through INVISIBLY ties.

So we have that these good willed people, members of false religions ("through not fault of their own????"), are actually Catholic, they just don't know it. The nerve! This is a diabolical lie! :really-mad2:

Some people truly are ignorant and not of bad will unless it is pride that keeps them ignorant I guess.