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Author Topic: Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus  (Read 35461 times)

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Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 02:15:33 PM »
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Don't bother.  Griff Ruby is equally as dishonest as the Dimond brothers, or more so.  Or blind.

Quick example:

Quote from: Griff Ruby
     Pope Eugene IV, "Cantate Domino," Council of Florence, ex cathedra: "No one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has persevered within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

    See in here the close grammar used. This speaks of those who leave the Church (for the ancient Fathers are full of denunciations of those who leave the Church, and for the martyrdoms of those who schismatically or heretically departed from the Church they have absolutely no respect. This is why one must "persevere" in the Church, something that only applies to those who are already inside as baptized members of the Church or Faithful. It is like saying that "If an American does not pay his taxes he is to be barred from all Governmental assistance." Nowhere in such a statement can one construe anything one way or the other as to what Governmental assistance non-Americans might possibly be permitted access to, as that statement only applies to Americans. So yes, a Catholic who leaves the Church, and is then martyred while still alienated from the Church, will be damned, and no BOB would apply to such an individual.


Notice that he completely left out the first part of the quotation, which appears nowhere in the article, and does indeed completely and infallibly render his argument null and void:

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, ex cathedra: "It (The Holy Catholic Church) firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

That includes people who have NOT YET joined the Church Mr. Ruby!  God the Holy Ghost did not say "All those who LEAVE the Church,' or "All those who RESIST the Church."  As your bogus and heretical interpretation suggests.  No wonder you omitted that part from your article.

Not to mention he is recognizing certain antipopes as true popes, which only adds to his propensity for heretical theology.


Could you explain the significance of the semicolons in this quote CM?

Offline CM

Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 02:25:03 PM »
Quote from: C.M.M.M
Could you explain the significance of the semicolons in this quote CM?


Grasping at straws, again, are you C.M.M.M.?  Get over it.


Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 03:06:17 PM »
Just asked a question.  Don't feel obliged to answer.  

If there is no significance, explain why.  If I am grasping at straws, explain why.  If the semicolon exists for a purpose, what is it's purpose in this quote, and why is Mr. Ruby a liar?  

Oh, wait...

Quote from: Catholic Martyr
No. I'm done debating you.

Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 03:10:29 PM »
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
'Lover of Truth' and everyone else, STOP trying to put non-Catholics in heaven.  It's heresy, pure and simple.


That is actually quite to the contrary. They argue that infidels can enter the Church before death through extraordinary (and of course supernatural) means.

Offline CM

Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 03:14:37 PM »
Quote from: Vladimir
That is actually quite to the contrary. They argue that infidels can enter the Church before death through extraordinary (and of course supernatural) means.


But they cannot.  Yet the heretics refuse to accept it.  Some of them even go as far as to say that explicit belief in Jesus Christ is not even necessary (invincible ignorance).  Thus, objectively, they are trying to put non-Catholics in heaven.