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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => The Feeneyism Ghetto => Topic started by: WorldsAway on June 15, 2025, 10:37:18 AM
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Why is it that EVERY SINGLE TIME trad clergy even remotely touch on EENS (which is rare enough) they just seem compelled to dilute the dogma by bringing up "invincible ignorance". Am I crazy or has anyone else experienced this happening EVERY SINGLE TIME. Is this taught in seminary, that you MUST make mention of the poor ignorant who will certainly be saved by their ignorance whenever you teach about "No Salvation Outside the Church"? Who does this help? You're speaking to Catholics, who are not ignorant, who have supernatural Faith, who are members of the Church, who know what is necessary for salvation. Is it to make us feel better about those we know who have not the Faith? What Catholic would ever more fervently seek the conversion of non-Catholics after hearing about salvation through invincible ignorance? The only result of this being taught is the damnation of more souls
The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.
-Council of Florence
How much clearer can you get?? Those at the Council of Florence made ZERO distinction between your "regular" Jews, pagans, heretics, schismatics who will be damned to the eternal fire and these supposed "invincibly ignorant" Jews, pagans, heretics, and schismatics who will be saved. They simply said "pagans, Jews, heretics, and schismatics". And what happens to them if they do not BEFORE DEATH become joined to the Holy Roman Catholic Church? They go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the Devil and his angels. What is wrong with these people?!
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Why is it that EVERY SINGLE TIME trad clergy even remotely touch on EENS (which is rare enough) they just seem compelled to dilute the dogma by bringing up "invincible ignorance". Am I crazy or has anyone else experienced this happening EVERY SINGLE TIME. Is this taught in seminary, that you MUST make mention of the poor ignorant who will certainly be saved by their ignorance whenever you teach about "No Salvation Outside the Church"? Who does this help? You're speaking to Catholics, who are not ignorant, who have supernatural Faith, who are members of the Church, who know what is necessary for salvation. Is it to make us feel better about those we know who have not the Faith? What Catholic would ever more fervently seek the conversion of non-Catholics after hearing about salvation through invincible ignorance? The only result of this being taught is the damnation of more souls
How much clearer can you get?? Those at the Council of Florence made ZERO distinction between your "regular" Jews, pagans, heretics, schismatics who will be damned to the eternal fire and these supposed "invincibly ignorant" Jews, pagans, heretics, and schismatics who will be saved. They simply said "pagans, Jews, heretics, and schismatics". And what happens to them if they do not BEFORE DEATH become joined to the Holy Roman Catholic Church? They go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the Devil and his angels. What is wrong with these people?!
Brainwashing. They can't accept that Arch Bishop Lefebvre was wrong on this matter and Fr Feeney was right. It comes down to human respect. And not reading and accepting the Church states AS IS. This is why they also can't see that Trent does not teach BoD, the decree literally refers to JUSTIFICATION not baptism.
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At the end of the day, it is human cowardice. They do not want to have to tell Jimmy, the Hindu next door, that if he does not become a Catholic, then he will be damned. It is much easier to water things down. These same priests take the same position with the New Mass. Oh, we cannot tell the people that the New Mass is a sin, we do not want to hurt their FEEWINGS!!!!
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Brainwashing. They can't accept that Arch Bishop Lefebvre was wrong on this matter and Fr Feeney was right. It comes down to human respect. And not reading and accepting the Church states AS IS. This is why they also can't see that Trent does not teach BoD, the decree literally refers to JUSTIFICATION not baptism.
At the end of the day, it is human cowardice. They do not want to have to tell Jimmy, the Hindu next door, that if he does not become a Catholic, then he will be damned. It is much easier to water things down. These same priests take the same position with the New Mass. Oh, we cannot tell the people that the New Mass is a sin, we do not want to hurt their FEEWINGS!!!!
Agreed. What I'm trying to get at, however, is the phenomenon of clergy incessantly adding the dilution of "invincible ignorance" after having affirmed EENS..every. single. time. I don't believe I have ever heard a priest (aside from a Fr. Bitzer or Wathen) teach EENS, even as a passing remark, without just having to add that disclaimer.
It's almost as if they believe the dogma, as it has been pronounced by the Church throughout Her history, that there is no salvation outside the Church, is terribly difficult to comprehend..and that when we simple lay folk hear that "Outside the Church there is no Salvation" we might fall into the grave error of believing that it means what it says..so they must add on to this most important dogma of the Church something that was never taught with it
Typing that last part out, I think that might just be it. "No Salvation Outside the Church" is such a clear and concise statement that anyone who is not familiar with salvation through "invincible ignorance" will, when hearing EENS, understand that the dogma means exactly what it says. So that may be why they always add the dilution after teaching EENS, lest someone who is listening gets the strange notion that Outside the Church..there is no salvation.
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It's almost as if they believe the dogma, as it has been pronounced by the Church throughout Her history, that there is no salvation outside the Church, is terribly difficult to comprehend..and that when we simple lay folk hear that "Outside the Church there is no Salvation" we might fall into the grave error of believing that it means what it says..so they must add on to this most important dogma of the Church something that was never taught with it
15. Almost everybody who writes or comments on this subject explains the doctrine by explaining it away, as we shall see further on. He begins by affirming the truth of the axiom, Extra Ecciesiam, etc., and ends by denying it - while continuing to insist vigorously that he is not doing so. He seems to think it a clever thing to state the formula, then to weasel out of it.
What he ought to do is one of two things: either admit that he does not believe this dogma (and also in the same breath, that he does not believe in the Dogma of the Church's Infallibility); or he should allow for the possibility that there is something about the Catholic Doctrine of Salvation of which he is unaware, or which he refuses to accept, or has been misled into denying. - Fr. Wathen, Who Shall Ascend?
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Jimmy, the Hindu next door, that if he does not become a Catholic, then he will be damned.
Jimmy the Hindu? Love it :laugh1:
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One time, a SSPX priest was teaching us catechism, and he mentioned EENS. I specifically asked him about salvation of the invincibly ignorant. He told me in front of about 15 people that there was no such a thing.
Another SSPX priest was preachng a sermon about EENS the other day and he never mentioned the "qualification" (really a denial of the dogma). Those are priests from the district of Mexico, who are said to be fairly conservative. God bless them. There's some hope.
It is frequently said that so much discussion about EENS is vain since we are never going to encounter an invincibly ignorant person. Or that no Catholic on the liberal side of this controversy will actually suggest to a pagan not to get baptized, so in practice those liberals don't deny the dogma. That's not the point of getting EENS right. Here's what Fr. Feeney said about believing EENS for our own sake. From his book Bread of Life:
(https://i.imgur.com/aFIp3j9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YixxLN0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/v2491xb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/R8SHlFq.png)
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Why is it that EVERY SINGLE TIME trad clergy even remotely touch on EENS (which is rare enough) they just seem compelled to dilute the dogma by bringing up "invincible ignorance". Am I crazy or has anyone else experienced this happening EVERY SINGLE TIME. Is this taught in seminary, that you MUST make mention of the poor ignorant who will certainly be saved by their ignorance whenever you teach about "No Salvation Outside the Church"? Who does this help? You're speaking to Catholics, who are not ignorant, who have supernatural Faith, who are members of the Church, who know what is necessary for salvation. Is it to make us feel better about those we know who have not the Faith? What Catholic would ever more fervently seek the conversion of non-Catholics after hearing about salvation through invincible ignorance? The only result of this being taught is the damnation of more souls
How much clearer can you get?? Those at the Council of Florence made ZERO distinction between your "regular" Jews, pagans, heretics, schismatics who will be damned to the eternal fire and these supposed "invincibly ignorant" Jews, pagans, heretics, and schismatics who will be saved. They simply said "pagans, Jews, heretics, and schismatics". And what happens to them if they do not BEFORE DEATH become joined to the Holy Roman Catholic Church? They go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the Devil and his angels. What is wrong with these people?!
Are you unaware of Pius IX's discussion of "invincible ignorance?"
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm
"7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."
If Pius IX thought it important enough to mention, why wouldn't it be important for the trad clergy to make that distinction as well?
The distinction Pius IX is making is between those who never held the Catholic Faith (because they were ignorant of it) and those who did, at one time, hold the Catholic Faith but fell away from the Faith and "are living in error."
Pope Eugene's comment also references those who do not "remain" in the Catholic Church, meaning that they were once Catholic and fell away from the Faith. See the word "remain" in your quote from Florence:
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
-Council of Florence
Now, the inevitable response will be "but that means everyone eventually goes to Heaven." Absolutely false. The "invincibly ignorant" are defined by Pius IX as those,
"Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."
These "invincibly ignorant" people are not common. How many non-Catholics do you think there are who "observe the natural law?"
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Are you unaware of Pius IX's discussion of "invincible ignorance?"
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm
"7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."
There's "invincible ignorance," then there's what Pope Pius XII said: "those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion." Two completely different things.
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There's "invincible ignorance," then there's what Pope Pius XII said: "those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion." Two completely different things.
Using Pius IX's formulation in Quanto Conficiamur Moerore (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm), 7:
There is no "eternal salvation" for a person "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity."
BUT
There is no "eternal punishment" for a person "who is not guilty of deliberate sin."
THEREFORE
A non-Catholic person who is "sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God" will be considered an "honest" but "ignorant" person by God and, for this reason will "attain eternal life," even though that person is a non-Catholic.
Is that not what Pius IX is saying?
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Are you unaware of Pius IX's discussion of "invincible ignorance?"
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm
"7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."
If Pius IX thought it important enough to mention, why wouldn't it be important for the trad clergy to make that distinction as well?
The distinction Pius IX is making is between those who never held the Catholic Faith (because they were ignorant of it) and those who did, at one time, hold the Catholic Faith but fell away from the Faith and "are living in error."
Pius IX did not make the distinction in the same way clergy do today. In fact, I don't think the "distinction" Pius IX made is what you are claiming it is at all.
very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion
Notice that, after saying that the belief that those "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity" can "arrive at eternal salvation" is "certainly opposed to Catholic teaching", Pius IX does NOT say "however" or "but" or any other common beginning of EENS soft denial. He teaches the dogma as it is, and leaves it at that, and then moves on to the invincibly ignorant.
And what does he say about the invincibly ignorant? Not what you claim, and not what trad clergy teach. He simply says "they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace". Where in this quote do we read that the invincibly ignorant can be saved without formally entering the Church? Without explicit faith and baptism?
Those invincibly ignorant who live honest lives and observe the natural law will be furnished with the means of salvation. That must happen, in order for them to be saved, because the invincibly ignorant are included in those who "[live] in error and [are] alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"! And what did Pius IX teach about those "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity."? They cannot arrive at eternal salvation
Was it Pius IX that lamented liberals who twisted and misinterpreted his words?
Pope Eugene's comment also references those who do not "remain" in the Catholic Church, meaning that they were once Catholic and fell away from the Faith. See the word "remain" in your quote from Florence:
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the 'eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
-Council of Florence
Pope Eugene would not say "pagans", "Jews and heretics and schismatics" if he was speaking of Catholics, because none of those people are Catholic. Again, note that he made no distinction between pagans, Jews, heretics, and schismatics who are invincibly ignorant and those who are not. They will all go into the eternal fire unless, before death, they are joined with the Church. If they are joined with the Church before death, they are no longer pagans, Jews, etc.
The usage of the words "remaining" and "remain" appear AFTER Pope Eugene says that those listed above must be joined with the Church in order to be saved. You must be joined with the Church AND remain in Her unity in order to be saved
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Pius IX did not make the distinction in the same way clergy do today. In fact, I don't think the "distinction" Pius IX made is what you are claiming it is at all.
Notice that, after saying that the belief that those "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity" can "arrive at eternal salvation" is "certainly opposed to Catholic teaching", Pius IX does NOT say "however" or "but" or any other common beginning of EENS soft denial. He teaches the dogma as it is, and leaves it at that, and then moves on to the invincibly ignorant.
And what does he say about the invincibly ignorant? Not what you claim, and not what trad clergy teach. He simply says "they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace". Where in this quote do we read that the invincibly ignorant can be saved without formally entering the Church? Without explicit faith and baptism?
Those invincibly ignorant who live honest lives and observe the natural law will be furnished with the means of salvation. That must happen, in order for them to be saved, because the invincibly ignorant are included in those who "[live] in error and [are] alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"! And what did Pius IX teach about those "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity."? They cannot arrive at eternal salvation
Was it Pius IX that lamented liberals who twisted and misinterpreted his words?
Pope Eugene would not say "pagans", "Jews and heretics and schismatics" if he was speaking of Catholics, because none of those people are Catholic. Again, note that he made no distinction between pagans, Jews, heretics, and schismatics who are invincibly ignorant and those who are not. They will all go into the eternal fire unless, before death, they are joined with the Church. If they are joined with the Church before death, they are no longer pagans, Jews, etc.
The usage of the words "remaining" and "remain" appear AFTER Pope Eugene says that those listed above must be joined with the Church in order to be saved. You must be joined with the Church AND remain in Her unity in order to be saved
Bottom line: according to Pius IX, "those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion" AND "observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God," even though they are outside of the Catholic Church, will not be eternally punished.
Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, what do you think Pius IX means? If they will not be eternally punished, what will happen to them when they die?
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Bottom line: according to Pius IX, "those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion" AND "observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God," even though they are outside of the Catholic Church, will not be eternally punished.
Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, what do you think Pius IX means? If they will not be eternally punished, what will happen to them when they die?
I disagree with your interpretation of what Pius IX was saying. I believe those who fall under the conditions laid out by Pius IX will be provided with the necessary means of salvation, and if they accept those means they will be saved. When you say they are "outside of the Catholic Church" yet "will not be eternally punished" you are saying something Pius IX never taught, and you should not imply that he ever taught that because that is contrary to Church teaching. Pius IX said the invincibly ignorant are "able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace.". As to the hypothetical invincibly ignorant person who observes the natural law and is ready to obey God, yet never received the opportunity to enter the Church by Baptism, there is no evidence for such a person ever having existed
Do you agree or disagree that ALL non-Catholics are "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"?
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Pius IX himself angrily denounced the misinterpretation of his teaching, the same distortion being applied by the BoDers today. It's basic theology since St. Thomas endorsed the notion of Limbo that one isn't punished except for actual sin. Ignorance however can only be exculpatory, not salvific ... unless you're a Pelagian heretic ... which, alas, most of you are. Try harder.
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At the end of the day, it is human cowardice. They do not want to have to tell Jimmy, the Hindu next door, that if he does not become a Catholic, then he will be damned. It is much easier to water things down. These same priests take the same position with the New Mass. Oh, we cannot tell the people that the New Mass is a sin, we do not want to hurt their FEEWINGS!!!!
THIS ^^^
Has any soul ever been lost because someone told them there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church? No. In fact, many have been saved.
But many are lost due to a complacency that comes from being told the opposite.
Even among Trad clergy many have weak minds and weak faith, despite having some sensibilities in favor of smells and bells.
They are also intellectually dishonest ... since they hold th exact same ecclesiology that attack V2 over as its core heresy.
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I disagree with your interpretation of what Pius IX was saying. I believe those who fall under the conditions laid out by Pius IX will be provided with the necessary means of salvation, and if they accept those means they will be saved. When you say they are "outside of the Catholic Church" yet "will not be eternally punished" you are saying something Pius IX never taught, and you should not imply that he ever taught that because that is contrary to Church teaching. Pius IX said the invincibly ignorant are "able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace.". As to the hypothetical invincibly ignorant person who observes the natural law and is ready to obey God, yet never received the opportunity to enter the Church by Baptism, there is no evidence for such a person ever having existed
Do you agree or disagree that ALL non-Catholics are "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity"?
Pius IX is making a distinction between "eternal salvation" and "eternal punishments." But there is are states in-between these two that must be considered. Those in-between states recognized by the Church are Purgatory, the limbo of children and the limbo of the Fathers.
Only Catholics have the potential to "arrive at eternal salvation." There is a good reason for this. It is because only Catholics have access to the Sacraments and sacramentals of the Church, which allow them to remain in a state of grace and make recompense in this earthly life for the debt that they owe for their sins. Having said that, potentiality and actuality are two different things. And most Catholics will not "arrive at eternal salvation." Instead, most Catholics will go either to Hell, or to Purgatory, where they be purified by (not saved from) the eternal fires of Hell before their arrival in Heaven.
Non-Catholics have no potential to "arrive at eternal salvation" upon their death. There is a good reason for this. It is because non-Catholics DO NOT have access to the Sacraments and sacramentals of the Church to remain in a state of grace and make recompense in this earthly life for the debt that they owe for their sins. Having said that, if the non-Catholic is one of "those who is struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion" AND "observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God," then that particular non-Catholic will not "suffer eternal punishments." Additionally, according to Pius IX, these rare, invincibly-ignorant and natural-law-observing non-Catholics will eventually "attain eternal life."
These rare, invincibly-ignorant and natural-law-observing non-Catholics are in a kind of in-between state. But unlike Catholics who don't actualize their potential for "eternal salvation" (because they fail, through their own fault, to properly utilize the Church's treasury of graces available to them), these rare "honest" non-Catholics will not go to Purgatory. Instead, they will go to limbo. Why? Because, by definition, they are ignorant and inculpable, like the small children who die without baptism. So, their souls will be treated the same way as the souls of those children. If limbo exists for unbaptized children, then it exists for "honest" non-Catholics of all ages. Why is this so hard to understand?
FWIW, I do agree that ALL non-Catholics are "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity." But again, not all non-Catholics are culpable for that error and alienation. Specifically, those who suffer from "invincible ignorance" AND who "sincerely observe the natural law" are "not guilty of deliberate sin." Therefore, that rare group of non-Catholics don't go to the Hell of eternal punishment. They go to limbo (specifically the "limbo of the fathers.")
You can read Aquinas's discussion of Limbo here: https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.IIISup.Q69.A6
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Using Pius IX's formulation in Quanto Conficiamur Moerore (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm), 7:
There is no "eternal salvation" for a person "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity."
BUT
There is no "eternal punishment" for a person "who is not guilty of deliberate sin."
THEREFORE
A non-Catholic person who is "sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God" will be considered an "honest" but "ignorant" person by God and, for this reason will "attain eternal life," even though that person is a non-Catholic.
Is that not what Pius IX is saying?
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved 14 How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher 15 And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things [Romans 10:13-15]
16 But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report 17 Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ 18 But I say: Have they not heard? Yes, verily, their sound hath gone forth into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the whole world 19 But I say: Hath not Israel known? First, Moses saith: I will provoke you to jealousy by that which is not a nation; by a foolish nation I will anger you 20 But Isaias is bold, and saith: I was found by them that did not seek me: I appeared openly to them that asked not after me [Romans 10:16-20]
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13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved 14 How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher 15 And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things [Romans 10:13-15]
16 But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report 17 Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ 18 But I say: Have they not heard? Yes, verily, their sound hath gone forth into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the whole world 19 But I say: Hath not Israel known? First, Moses saith: I will provoke you to jealousy by that which is not a nation; by a foolish nation I will anger you 20 But Isaias is bold, and saith: I was found by them that did not seek me: I appeared openly to them that asked not after me [Romans 10:16-20]
Romans chapter 10 is mainly about the Jews, who claimed to be the true "Israel," but refused to accept Jesus as their Christ. This old "Israel" was not invincibly ignorant. Their blindness was culpable. They knew better. Just like Catholics of today should know better than to do many of the things they do.
The Jews (the old Israel) and the Catholics (the new Israel) are held to a higher standard by God. Why? Because they have been given the grace of the true Faith. Those who squander such a treasure will be punished more severely than those who are invincibly ignorant.
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Pius IX is making a distinction between "eternal salvation" and "eternal punishments." But there is are states in-between these two that must be considered. Those in-between states recognized by the Church are Purgatory, the limbo of children and the limbo of the Fathers.
Only Catholics have the potential to "arrive at eternal salvation." There is a good reason for this. It is because only Catholics have access to the Sacraments and sacramentals of the Church, which allow them to remain in a state of grace and make recompense in this earthly life for the debt that they owe for their sins. Having said that, potentiality and actuality are two different things. And most Catholics will not "arrive at eternal salvation." Instead, most Catholics will go either to Hell, or to Purgatory, where they be purified by (not saved from) the eternal fires of Hell before their arrival in Heaven.
Non-Catholics have no potential to "arrive at eternal salvation" upon their death. There is a good reason for this. It is because non-Catholics DO NOT have access to the Sacraments and sacramentals of the Church to remain in a state of grace and make recompense in this earthly life for the debt that they owe for their sins. Having said that, if the non-Catholic is one of "those who is struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion" AND "observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God," then that particular non-Catholic will not "suffer eternal punishments." Additionally, according to Pius IX, these rare, invincibly-ignorant and natural-law-observing non-Catholics will eventually "attain eternal life."
These rare, invincibly-ignorant and natural-law-observing non-Catholics are in a kind of in-between state. But unlike Catholics who don't actualize their potential for "eternal salvation" (because they fail, through their own fault, to properly utilize the Church's treasury of graces available to them), these rare "honest" non-Catholics will not go to Purgatory. Instead, they will go to limbo. Why? Because, by definition, they are ignorant and inculpable, like the small children who die without baptism. So, their souls will be treated the same way as the souls of those children. If limbo exists for unbaptized children, then it exists for "honest" non-Catholics of all ages. Why is this so hard to understand?
FWIW, I do agree that ALL non-Catholics are "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity." But again, not all non-Catholics are culpable for that error and alienation. Specifically, those who suffer from "invincible ignorance" AND who "sincerely observe the natural law" are "not guilty of deliberate sin." Therefore, that rare group of non-Catholics don't go to the Hell of eternal punishment. They go to limbo (specifically the "limbo of the fathers.")
You can read Aquinas's discussion of Limbo here: https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.IIISup.Q69.A6
These are two contradictory statements. Will these souls "eventually attain eternal life" or will they go to limbo? Pius IX taught that they can attain eternal life "by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace". I believe this to mean they will be afforded the necessary means of salvation (entering the Church by Baptism), before death. If they accept these means they will be saved, if they do not they will be damned.
But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains
-Council of Florence
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Using Pius IX's formulation in Quanto Conficiamur Moerore (https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm), 7:
There is no "eternal salvation" for a person "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity."
BUT
There is no "eternal punishment" for a person "who is not guilty of deliberate sin."
THEREFORE
A non-Catholic person who is "sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God" will be considered an "honest" but "ignorant" person by God and, for this reason will "attain eternal life," even though that person is a non-Catholic.
Is that not what Pius IX is saying?
I would not think for one second that that's what PPIX is saying. After all, a non-Catholic is, as PPIX says, is: "living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity." In both the previous sentences, and the very next sentence, he proclaims the EENS dogma.
When he says: "anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishment" he is talking about members of the Church.
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Here is yet another quote from the great St. Augustine in support of Extra Ecclesiam taken from his work Admonition and Grace (Fathers of Church, Cath. Univ., vol. 4):
"Moreover, I shall not delay over the baptism of infants (which as our adversaries must admit, certainly belong to the kingdom of God, even if the above mentioned things do not), nor consider why it is given to one and not to another, when to give it or not to give it is equally in the power of God, and without that sacrament no one enters the kingdom of God." (p. 267)