Author Topic: Effects of the Heresy of Denying Baptism of Desire (Read 35651 times)

Cantarella · « **Reply #85 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:27:51 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Invincible ignorance is not a doctrine, it is simply inculpable ignorance.

Inculpable ignorance of the true religion excuses a person from the sin of infidelity or heresy. But such ignorance has never been the means of salvation, since the Original Sin suffices for damnation and is only remitted by Baptism. No one can enter Heaven in state of Original Sin and one of the graces of Baptism is the remission of Original Sin.

Infallible Magisterium

Council of Florence:
"The effect of this sacrament (Baptism) is the remission of every sin, original and actual"

Council of Lyons:
"The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to Hell, yet to be punished with different punishments"

Council of Florence:
" It is likewise defined that the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into Hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds".

Pope Innocent III:
"The punishment of original sin is the loss of the vision of God; the punishment for actual sin is the torments of everlasting Hell".

From the fact that a person could potentially live a righteous life according to his conscience and not sin against the true Faith because of ignorance, many have drawn the false and heretical conclusion that such a soul is saved, or be granted sanctifying grace, thus making ignorance a means of salvation.

The dogma of "Outside of the Church there is no salvation," means that no one can go to Heaven unless he is in the state of sanctifying grace and furthermore, that in order to receive sanctifying grace, the soul must be prepared for it by divine Faith. Baptism is the entrance and gateway to this spiritual life in Christ. This preparation of the soul cannot be brought by inculpable ignorance. Every Catholic must know and believe the truths of Salvation as well as receive the Sacraments dispensed by the Church to receive the necessary graces.

According to the Angelic Doctor himself, God in His mercy will lead the worthy, righteous, well disposed souls, to the knowledge of the necessary truths of salvation, even send them an angel, if necessary, to instruct them, rather than let them perish without their fault. If they accept this grace, they will be saved as Catholics. Inculpable ignorance has never been a means of grace or salvation.

andysloan · « **Reply #86 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:37:08 AM »

Ladislaus said:

"You focus incorrectly on the word "or" without recognizing that it's in a double negative construction along with the preposition without."

Do you really think that would be the view of the millions of people who have read this docuмent? Why did the formulators of Trent not make it clear that they were using imprecise language?

1 Timothy 6:3-5

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness, He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth!

It's quiet a penance for those who understand to read all this turgid nonsense. It so simple that a young child easily grasp it.

But as the Lord said:

Luke 16:31

"And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead."

SJB · « **Reply #87 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:53:00 AM »

Quote from: Cantrella

Inculpable ignorance of the true religion excuses a person from the sin of infidelity or heresy. But such ignorance has never been the means of salvation, since the Original Sin suffices for damnation and is only remitted by Baptism. No one can enter Heaven in state of Original Sin and one of the graces of Baptism is the remission of Original Sin.

Nobody is saying ignorance saves, culpable or inculpable.

Stubborn · « **Reply #88 on:** March 20, 2014, 12:07:17 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

Ladislaus/Bowler/Cantarella/Stubborn

At the end of the day, BoB and BoD are valid baptisms which make one a member of the church.

Fr Feeeney, having passed away, now knows this, as will you do when you die (but hopefully before.)

That is the end of the matter.

I have said that a Baptism-of-Desire Catholic is not a member of the Church. He cannot be prayed for after death as one of "the faithful departed." Were he to be revivified immediately after death — were he to come to life again — he would not be allowed to receive Holy Eucharist or any of the other Sacraments until he was baptized by water.

Now, if he can get into the Church Triumphant without Baptism of Water, it is strange that he cannot get into the Church Militant without it. It is an odd procedure for priests of the Church Militant to be shunting people off to the Church Triumphant before these people have enrolled in the a Church Militant, which fights the good fight and preserves the Faith. - Fr. Feeney

Ladislaus · « **Reply #89 on:** March 20, 2014, 12:21:43 PM »

Quote from: andysloan

At the end of the day, BoB and BoD are valid baptisms which make one a member of the church.

Firstly, even BoDers will say that BoB and BoD do not make people "members" of the Church.

Secondly, Translation = "No matter what you say or what reasons there might be against them, I have made up my mind to believe what I want to believe."