Again, andysloan, you have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

CHAPTER VI
THE MANNER OF PREPARATION

Now, they [the adults] are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace, receiving faith by hearing,[21] they are moved freely toward God, believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised, especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22] and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God, are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice, and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation, that is, by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;[23] finally, when they resolve to receive baptism, to begin a new life and to keep the commandments of God.

All of this absolutely destroys Faith of Desire, for the famous "desire quote" comes AFTER this.

Your reference to Baptism being the "Sacrament of Faith" has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

These predisposing virtues however do not on their own justify but "dispose" to be justified.  Yet another argument AGAINST BoD.

Notice also the next part:

CHAPTER VII
IN WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER CONSISTS, AND WHAT ARE ITS CAUSES

This disposition or preparation is followed by justification itself,

Notice that justification FOLLOWS these predispositions, and the dispositions to not themselves justify.  Notice also that the "resolve to receive Baptism" comes BEFORE justification and therefore does not in itself justify.  Trent teaches that JUSTIFICATION occurs AFTER these when Baptism happens.

So Trent actually condemns BoD.

Based on this teaching alone you who hold FAITH OF DESIRE are condemned.

Stubborn said:


"Are you a student of Vetus Ordo?
He was a staunch Trad who thought he could interpret Scripture too - - he is now fully prot. - which is where you're heading if you're not already one."



These words and your numerous other uncharitable words will go with you to your judgement. Seemingly, you feel secure in you mockery of your neighbour now, but as it is written:




Matthew 12:36

"But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment."

   

Ecclesiasticus 7:8

"Nor bind sin to sin: for even in one thou shalt not be unpunished."

2 Peter 1:20
Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.


   

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Protestant - style Bible quoting, entirely out of context and from an individual interpretation point, provide little contribution to the discussed topic.

As opposed to your Protestant-style Denzinger quoting?

I wish this topic had its own subforum, for crying out loud. It never ends.

Confining it to a sub-forum would be better than the present. There it could be ignored more easily. The SBC cult currently injects their errors into just about any thread possible.

Andy,
Are you able to do the strictly Catholic thing and start a thread championing the necessity of the sacraments unto salvation - or will you admit that for you to do such a thing is absolutely impossible because you do not believe any sacraments at all are a necessity unto salvation?

I ask because in over 3 months of asking, there is not one single solitary BODer who has accepted this challenge - nor are any of them honest enough to admit they cannot bring themselves to do such a thing - are you going to be honest?

Post challenge?

I am of the opinion that you and the other BODers will remain obstinately attached to your error for as long as you continue with your lex orandi, which is to mock and despise the necessity of the sacraments and the Church for the hope of salvation. As long as you keep repeating the same error, the error will remain the way you believe, the error is your lex credendi.

NOTE:
If you do not believe me, if you think I'm wrong, if you want to get it off your chest and really prove and expose to everyone exactly how ignorant of a person I really am, then please prove me completely wrong by starting and participating in a thread in which you do the strictly Catholic thing and actually defend the necessity of the sacraments for the hope of salvation.

I maintain that SJB or Ambrose or any BODer who clings to the belief that salvation without the sacrament is possible, will be both unwilling and unable to get themselves to even think of doing such a thing much less actually do it - it is not just *not* a part of a BODers lex credendi, doing such a thing is actually opposed to a BODers lex credendi.

This is the easiest way I can think of for you and other BODers to discover for yourselves and on your own that you cannot do the Catholic and outwardly defend, that which you inwardly deeply despise.

I've asked this of BODers 5 or 6 times now and so far, not even one of them has even acknowledged the challenge, but new threads trivializing the necessity of the sacraments are started by a BODers regularly.

It is just not a part of a BODer's lex credendi to do the Catholic thing and defend the necessity of the sacraments for the hope of salvation.  

Stubborn said:

Andy,

Are you able to do the strictly Catholic thing

(infers stubborn is the true catholic; casting doubt on the Catholic pedigree of the other - deceit, detraction; insincerity)

No, I asked a clear question expecting a clear answer.
I can see you are just as dishonest as the rest of the BODers.

and start a thread championing the necessity of the sacraments unto salvation


(implying the other is a heretic - calumny)

Wrong again.
I accuse YOU and the other BODers of being unable to even think of defending the necessity of the sacraments. Your reply shows that it is just as absolutely impossible for you defend the sacraments as it would be for me to defend the anti-sacrament a BOD.

 - or will you admit that for you to do such a thing is absolutely impossible because you do not believe any sacraments at all are a necessity unto salvation?


(lying, calumny)

Weasel reply.
Either start a thread and champion the defense of the sacraments or admit it is absolutely impossible for you to preach a BOD and at the same time defend the necessity of the sacraments.

I ask because in over 3 months of asking, there is not one single solitary BODer who has accepted this challenge


(infers the truth rests with stubborn's position through non-acceptance - deceit, insincerity)

Super weasel reply.
Infers that YOU cannot defend that which you despise. . . . .the only way to prove me wrong is to actually start a thead championing the defense of the sacraments.

 - nor are any of them honest enough to admit they cannot bring themselves to do such a thing - are you going to be honest?



(non-compliance vindicates stubborn's position; others are dishonest - deceit, lying, calumny)

This is the first thing you got EXACTLY RIGHT!

Titus 3:10-11

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:
Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment."

CANON IV-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; . let him be anathema.

St. Alphonsus; The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching.  But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons:  for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary  as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire.


Andy, by your reply, you'da thought I asked you to do something un-Catholic or something anti-Catholic - the truth of the matter is that I asked you to do something STRICTLY Catholic -  think about that - think about why you did not jump at the chance!
I will say that at least you acknowledged the challenge - which is more than  the other weasels did.

I suggest you repeat the words of Trent " the sacraments of the New Law are necessary unto salvation" 1500 times a day until you believe it.

Quote from: Charlemagne

I wish this topic had its own subforum, for crying out loud. It never ends.

Confining it to a sub-forum would be better than the present. There it could be ignored more easily. The SBC cult currently injects their errors into just about any thread possible.

This is absolutely true, and I for one fail to understand how this type of behavior is tolerated.  Seriously, Church quote after Church quote has been provided to counter the misguided conclusions being propagated here by these unfortunate souls, yet, this circus parade of arrogant pride is allowed to continue without any recourse?