Author Topic: Effects of the Heresy of Denying Baptism of Desire (Read 35580 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #170 on:** March 25, 2014, 02:41:15 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Ladislaus
You are correct. I do not believe the Father Cekada nonsense that we are bound to accept majority theological opinion as if it were part of the Magisterium. Otherwise, I'd have become Arian during the time of Arianism or would have accepted Vatican II.

What sources do you rely on in this assertion? When you are not able to produce any, will you admit that you make up theological principles from your own reasoning?

You reject Vatican II based on exactly the same reasoning.

I learn from the Popes, Doctors, theologians and canonists. I distrust myself completely. That is the difference between you and I.

Nice! :applause:

bowler · « **Reply #171 on:** March 25, 2014, 03:02:07 PM »

Lover of "Truth" sees no Elephant in the room:

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Ambrose
I learn from the Popes, Doctors, theologians and canonists. I distrust myself completely. That is the difference between you and I.

Below quote applies to you too. You are missing the ELEPHANT in the room.
It does not phase you one iota that you deny the clear dogmatic declaration of Florence , the ancient Athanasian Creed, and that not one Doctor, Father, Saint, or Council ever taught your salvation without explicit belief Incarnation and the Trinity, nor explicit desire to be baptized or Catholic

Quote from: bowler
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: bowler
To All BODers,

The Saint Benedict Center is in full communion with Rome and the local diocese. The Church has not declared BOD in any shape or form a dogma, nor has it declared heretics anyone or any saint, doctor or priest who taught teach John 3:15 as it is written, including all the Saint Benedict centers .

And yet, you believe that anyone can be saved who has no explicit desire to be Catholic, baptized, nor belief in the Incarnation and the Trinity!

Your belief is opposed to the clear DOGMA of Florence and the 1600 year old Athanasian creed.

It does not phase you one iota that not one Doctor, Father, Saint, or Council taught your salvation without explicit belief Incarnation and the Trinity, nor explicit desire to be baptized or Catholic!

DOGMA:

Quote
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.– But the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity... Therefore let him who wishes to be saved, think thus concerning the Trinity. “But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...the Son of God is God and man...– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

If that dogma does not mean what it CLEARLY says, then words have no meaning. Moreover, not a Father, Saint, Doctor, or Council ever taught that anyone can be saved without belief in Christ and the real God, the Holy Trinity.

So you are in communion with heretics? Isn't "full communion" a post V2 term?

SJB once again misses the elephant in the room!

Ladislaus · « **Reply #172 on:** March 25, 2014, 03:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Ladislaus
You are correct. I do not believe the Father Cekada nonsense that we are bound to accept majority theological opinion as if it were part of the Magisterium. Otherwise, I'd have become Arian during the time of Arianism or would have accepted Vatican II.

What sources do you rely on in this assertion? When you are not able to produce any, will you admit that you make up theological principles from your own reasoning?

You reject Vatican II based on exactly the same reasoning.

I learn from the Popes, Doctors, theologians and canonists. I distrust myself completely. That is the difference between you and I.

Nice! :applause:

Yeah, in the same way Protestants say that they rely on the authority of Sacred Scripture ... filtered through your own lenses. We're all in the same boat since we don't have a Pope around to settle the issue. In normal times, we would appeal our dispute to Rome. When the Holy Pope comes, he'll condemn your error(s) once and for all. You'll be in for quite a surprise.

SJB · « **Reply #173 on:** March 25, 2014, 08:47:57 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Lover of Truth
Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: Ladislaus
You are correct. I do not believe the Father Cekada nonsense that we are bound to accept majority theological opinion as if it were part of the Magisterium. Otherwise, I'd have become Arian during the time of Arianism or would have accepted Vatican II.

What sources do you rely on in this assertion? When you are not able to produce any, will you admit that you make up theological principles from your own reasoning?

You reject Vatican II based on exactly the same reasoning.

I learn from the Popes, Doctors, theologians and canonists. I distrust myself completely. That is the difference between you and I.

Nice! :applause:

Yeah, in the same way Protestants say that they rely on the authority of Sacred Scripture ... filtered through your own lenses. We're all in the same boat since we don't have a Pope around to settle the issue. In normal times, we would appeal our dispute to Rome. When the Holy Pope comes, he'll condemn your error(s) once and for all. You'll be in for quite a surprise.

You have a definite Protestant mentality, Ladi. You rely solely on first sources and your own explanations. Scripture is replaced with Denzinger or The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #174 on:** March 26, 2014, 05:54:09 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Lover of "Truth" sees no Elephant in the room:

Quote from: bowler
Quote from: Ambrose
I learn from the Popes, Doctors, theologians and canonists. I distrust myself completely. That is the difference between you and I.

Below quote applies to you too. You are missing the ELEPHANT in the room.
It does not phase you one iota that you deny the clear dogmatic declaration of Florence , the ancient Athanasian Creed, and that not one Doctor, Father, Saint, or Council ever taught your salvation without explicit belief Incarnation and the Trinity, nor explicit desire to be baptized or Catholic

Quote from: bowler
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: bowler
To All BODers,

The Saint Benedict Center is in full communion with Rome and the local diocese. The Church has not declared BOD in any shape or form a dogma, nor has it declared heretics anyone or any saint, doctor or priest who taught teach John 3:15 as it is written, including all the Saint Benedict centers .

And yet, you believe that anyone can be saved who has no explicit desire to be Catholic, baptized, nor belief in the Incarnation and the Trinity!

Your belief is opposed to the clear DOGMA of Florence and the 1600 year old Athanasian creed.

It does not phase you one iota that not one Doctor, Father, Saint, or Council taught your salvation without explicit belief Incarnation and the Trinity, nor explicit desire to be baptized or Catholic!

DOGMA:

Quote
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.– But the Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in the Trinity, and the Trinity in unity... Therefore let him who wishes to be saved, think thus concerning the Trinity. “But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ...the Son of God is God and man...– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”

If that dogma does not mean what it CLEARLY says, then words have no meaning. Moreover, not a Father, Saint, Doctor, or Council ever taught that anyone can be saved without belief in Christ and the real God, the Holy Trinity.

So you are in communion with heretics? Isn't "full communion" a post V2 term?

SJB once again misses the elephant in the room!

I do see the elephant in the room. There are two actually. One is that Bergolio is an apostate heretic than cannot be Pope and the other is Bowler who keeps posting teaching contrary to the Catholic faith on this forum.