Author Topic: Effects of the Heresy of Denying Baptism of Desire (Read 35624 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #120 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:23:37 AM »

It would be refreshing to find even a modicuм of sincerity and honesty among you BoDers, but I have not found any yet.

You won't even admit that all these quotes you pull out are referring to EXPLICIT BOD (of the catechumen, of someone who accepts and confesses the Catholic Faith). When I point this out, I get a flurry of downthumbs but never responses.

You use BoD as cover for your heretical denial of EENS, just as the modernists used BoD to undermine EENS and bring us Vatican II.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #121 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:26:31 AM »

Let me quote again from the pseudo Innocent II that YOU cited:

Quote from: pseudo Innocent II

because he persevered in the faith of holy mother Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joy of the heavenly fatherland

EXPLICIT BOD.

These quotes actually condemn you and yet you are so caught up in your dishonest insincere crusade that you won't even realized. You are condemned by your own quotes.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #122 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:19:10 AM »

St. Fulgentius was cited earlier as a proponent of BoD. Let's look at what St. Fulgentius really taught.

Quote from: St. Fulgentius

Let no doubt shake our mind from this view; let no one say that a man is saved unless he comes to this bodily immersion; at any rate let us not say that he can be saved without the sacrament of baptism purely on the confession of faith. For he who believes and is baptized, will be saved. And as for that young man whom we know to have believed and confessed his faith: we maintain that it was through the sacrament of baptism that he was saved. If anyone is not baptized, not only in ignorance, but even knowingly, he can in no way be saved. For his path to salvation was through the confession, and salvation itself was in baptism. At his age, not only was confession without baptism of no avail: Baptism itself would be of no avail for salvation if he neither believed nor confessed. But God desired that his confession should avail for his salvation, since he preserved him in this life until the time of his holy regeneration. Thus he asked for the gift of holy regeneration as God desired; and so, since God desired it, God gave it. (St. Fulgentius, Ep. 12, 8, 19 = PL 65, 388)

So how is it that BoDers dishonestly claim that he taught BoD?

Quote from: St. Fulgentius

From that time at which our Savior said: "If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven ," no one can, without the Sacrament of Baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without Baptism pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal

So St. Fulgentius held that BoB was possible for those who confessed the Catholic faith and were "in the Catholic Church".

So, to summarize St. Fulgentius:

BoD -- REJECTED
BoB -- HELD FOR THOSE IN THE CHURCH

Yet the dishonest BoDers (including the incredibly deceitful Fr. Laisney) promote St. Fulgentius as a BoD advocate and and therefore as a promoter of the "TRUE INTERPRETATION OF EENS" (according to Laisney).

Really?

Quote from: St. Fulgentius

Hold most firmly and never doubt in the least that not only all pagans but also all Jews and all heretics and schismatics who end this present life outside the Catholic Church are about to go into the eternal fire that was prepared for the Devil and his angels.

Yet I'm sure if you asked St. Fulgentius, he'd tell you, like Bishop Fellay, that the Hindu in Tibet can be saved, or like Archbishop Lefebvre, that people in various assorted religious can be saved without confessing the Catholic faith.

Read and ponder and imbibe these words of St. Fulgentius and his spirit, and then come back and tell me whether they're in the least bit compatible with your heretical ideas that non-Catholics can be saved.

You do not have the same faith as St. Fulgentius, or as any of the Fathers, or as any of the Doctors, but are in league with a flurry of modernist theologians beginning with the Illuminati-driven "Enlightenment" era of philosophical subjectivism.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #123 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:22:40 AM »

Now let's look at something else.

Quote from: Catechism of Trent

On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.

Quote from: St. Fulgentius

But God desired that his confession should avail for his salvation ...

Same language.

Now let's finish the quote from St. Fulgentius.

Quote from: St. Fulgentius

But God desired that his confession should avail for his salvation, since he preserved him in this life until the time of his holy regeneration.

This analogy with the language of St. Fulgentius actually backs my interpretation of the catechism of Trent, which you'll find was to take the term "avail" exactly in the same sense as St. Fulgentius used it.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #124 on:** March 21, 2014, 09:27:55 AM »

Father Laisney the Liar:

Quote from: Father Laisney

Such is the case for the doctrine on baptism of desire ... It is found even before this millennium in the very early years of the Church without a single dissenting voice.

Exposed as a complete liar. There were at least 4-5 Fathers who explicitly rejected BoD (including St. Fulgentius above).