Author Topic: Effects of the Heresy of Denying Baptism of Desire (Read 35677 times)

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #105 on:** March 20, 2014, 09:48:46 PM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: Mithrandylan
As to what Ladislaus said, I guess we shouldn't be holding out much hope for the baptized who die before the age of reason (or the age of desire, as it were).

If BOD "simply" does not exist, then you disagree with Ladislaus who (his quoted post notwithstanding) has mentioned several times that he believes in BOD for the catechumen, just not for non-catechumens (he's quite fond of making this distinction, actually).

As SJB is wont to say, I don't think you know what you even believe.

The baptized who die before the age of reason go straight to Heaven (they are considered part of the elect). They do not have Original Sin, having this been remitted through Baptism; and they are not guilty of actual sins since they still don't reach the age of reason. Yet they do not desire it, which sort of throws that whole "we can't play baseball without a bat or a ball" analogy.

I do know what I believe and here it is:

There has been some theological speculation and fallible Church teaching on BOD / BOB. We find it specially in what was printed after Modernism, but actually it started taking form after the Peace of Westphalia in which catholic monarchs started watering down the Faith for the purpose of co-existing with Protestant nations. Always this teaching has been in regards to catechumens and martyrs only . Never BOD has been defined de fide. No theological conclusion is a dogma of faith however certain and evident the conclusion may be when the Church has not yet defined the question through her infallible magisterium.

Whereas I don't hold the BOD belief myself in any circuмstance (for the reason presented above, about God's omnipotence and promise to the elect), I would not have a problem with the concept of BOD strictly for catechumens only (+ explicit Catholic Faith), if it had not been because it was exploited by the modernist liberals as to allow salvation for Non- Catholics. So you have some non-negotiable and strict position which is somehow conceptually negotiable and lenient, and this belief of yours exists because of modernism. Think about that for a while.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #106 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:16:24 PM »

I never said that I believed in BoD for catechumens, just that I do not call that heresy and recognize that the Church has always tolerated the opinion. My issue is with those who twist BoD into a denial of EENS.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #107 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:18:57 PM »

Don't you? My mistake then. I was almost certain that you did.

Ambrose · « **Reply #108 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:46:34 PM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Don't you? My mistake then. I was almost certain that you did.

He is at least consistent in espousing his heresy. As far as I can tell, he has constantly denied Catholic teaching on Baptism of Desire. He ignores the Council of Trent, the teaching of the Popes, the Code, The Holy Office, Doctors, theologians, catechisms and saints all in favor of a heresy he most likely learned from the Dimonds or the SBC.

Ambrose · « **Reply #109 on:** March 20, 2014, 10:48:36 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

Thank you, Ambrose, for defending Catholic doctrine.

Thank you for the kind words. Please pray for me, my brother in the Faith.