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Author Topic: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation  (Read 7942 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2022, 09:19:12 PM »
I was not trying to make this into a Feeneyite argument.  EENS is definitely a Church dogma.  Feeneyism isn't.
It is an opinion about defining how the Church exact understood the dogma.

The OP said that most Catholics he met did not believe in EENS.  I was trying to express in the first couple of paragraphs that almost all long standing traditional Catholics I know believe in the dogma but that some newcomers might be confused about it because they may have been tainted by previous novus ordo or protestant beliefs.  That is all I was trying to say in the first couple paragraphs. 

The OP's question was mainly about whether non-Catholics can receive revelations from God.  That was the part I meant to comment and help "clarify" concerning and say that it is possible but not likely.

I didn't even mention the expression Baptism of Desire in my post, nor even Baptism at all.

This notion that anyone who believes that non-Catholics cannot be saved is a "Feeneyite" speaks volumes about what Traditional Catholics believe about EENS.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2022, 09:29:16 PM »
In fact, I very deliberately avoided any mention of Baptism of Baptism of Desire, precisely to see how many people would interpret that as "Feeneyism", to illustrate precisely what's going on.

Most people don't know that Father Feeney's position on Baptism of Desire came later.

This is what Father Feeney was up against.  Cardinal Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense."  (quote from a biographer favorable to Cushing)

https://tinyurl.com/yckrve44
Quote
Father Feeney became famous for his public stand for the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation in the 1940’s and 1950’s.  Most people fail to realize that, at that time, the world’s bishops were by no means staunch traditionalists.  Most of the world’s bishops had already embraced the heresy of indifferentism, which explains why almost all of them signed the heretical Vatican II docuмents just a short time later. ... In fact, during his time, Father Feeney wrote to all of the bishops of the world about the dogma Outside the Church There is No Salvation and received only three positive responses.  In other words, only three of the world’s bishops at that time manifested a positive belief in the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No salvation as it had been defined.  It is no wonder that Vatican II went through with virtually no resistance from the Episcopate.

Father Feeney believed and preached the dogma – as it had been defined – publicly in Boston.  He believed and preached that unless a man embraces the Catholic Faith – whether he be a Jєω, Muslim, Protestant or agnostic – he will perish forever in Hell.  Many converted, and many were angry.  He had not a few enemies, especially among the increasingly modernist, politically correct and compromised clergy.

One of his main enemies was the Archbishop of Boston, Richard Cushing, a B’nai Brith (Jєωιѕн Freemasons) man of the year, and someone who called the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation “nonsense.”  In April of 1949, Cushing silenced Fr. Feeney and interdicted St. Benedict Center (the apostolate affiliated with Fr. Feeney).  The reason given by Cushing was “disobedience,” but the real reason was Father Feeney’s public stand for the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation.  It was not due to Father Feeney’s stand against the theory of baptism of desire either, since this wasn’t first published until 1952.  Cushing’s dissatisfaction with Fr. Feeney was strictly based on Father Feeney’s stand for the defined dogma that only Catholics – and those who become Catholics – can be saved.

Cushing had allies with other heretical clergymen in Boston, the area where the controversy erupted.  Father John Ryan, S.J., head of the Adult Education Institute of Boston College, stated in the fall of 1947: “I do not agree with Father Feeney’s doctrine on salvation outside the Church.”  Father Stephen A. Mulcahy, S.J., Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences of Boston College, termed it: “Father Feeney’s doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church.”  And Father J.J. McEleney, S.J., Provincial of the New England Province of the Society of Jesus, told Father Feeney in a personal meeting, that he was being ordered to transfer to Holy Cross College because of “Your doctrine.”  Father Feeney quickly responded, “My doctrine on what?”  To which Fr. McEleney replied, “I’m sorry, we can’t go into that.”
...
On December 2, 1948, the President of Boston College, Father William L. Keleher, S.J., held an interview with Dr. Maluf, who was an ally of Father Feeney in the stand for the dogma.  Fr. Keleher stated:
“Father Feeney came to me at the beginning of this situation and I would have liked to do something except that I could not agree with his doctrine on salvation… He (Fr. Feeney) kept repeating such phrases as ‘There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.’
...
On April 13, 1949, Fr. Keleher (the President of Boston College) fired Dr. Maluf, James R. Walsh and Charles Ewaskio from the faculty at Boston College for accusing the school of heresy against the dogma Outside the Church There is No Salvation.  In his April 14 statement to the press explaining the reason behind their dismissal, Fr. Keleher stated:
“They continued to speak in class and out of class on matters contrary to the traditional teaching of the Catholic Church, ideas leading to bigotry and intolerance.  Their doctrine is erroneous and as such could not be tolerated at Boston College.  They were informed that they must cease such teaching or leave the faculty.”

Most of the above happened in 1949, and it wasn't until about 1952 that "Baptism of Desire" came up.


Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2022, 10:10:31 PM »
I didn't even mention the expression Baptism of Desire in my post, nor even Baptism at all.

This notion that anyone who believes that non-Catholics cannot be saved is a "Feeneyite" speaks volumes about what Traditional Catholics believe about EENS.
I never said that "Anyone who believes that non-Catholics cannot be saved is a "Feeneyite"."

I was actually trying to express that most traditional Catholics whom I know DO believe in EENS and that only Catholics can be saved...and most of them in fact aren't Feenyites.  :popcorn:


Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2022, 10:14:54 PM »
In fact, I very deliberately avoided any mention of Baptism of Baptism of Desire, precisely to see how many people would interpret that as "Feeneyism", to illustrate precisely what's going on.

Most people don't know that Father Feeney's position on Baptism of Desire came later.

This is what Father Feeney was up against.  Cardinal Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense."  (quote from a biographer favorable to Cushing)

https://tinyurl.com/yckrve44
Most of the above happened in 1949, and it wasn't until about 1952 that "Baptism of Desire" came up.
I am familiar with the story as I used to be an Dogmatic Feeneyite back before some good priests helped me out of being as extreme...;):incense:

Offline Stubborn

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2022, 04:24:54 AM »
I’m not Stubborn(obviously) but this quote is from Friends of The Cross by St. Louis Marie De Montfort. It’s a short read and very good!
That quote is found on multiple sites, but I got it from here.