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Author Topic: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation  (Read 7807 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2022, 12:34:55 PM »
I’m not Stubborn(obviously) but this quote is from Friends of The Cross by St. Louis Marie De Montfort. It’s a short read and very good!

Thank you.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2022, 12:51:29 PM »
I’m a catechumen, and this is one of the questions I asked my priest. When it comes to non-Catholic prayers being answered the short answer is this: No.

Indeed, our faith really is simple, consisting of "Yes yes" and "No no" as Our Lord taught, and the faithful are not expected to be theologians to believe any dogma of the Church.  We are not expected to ... nor should we ... expound for 3 pages about what the Church "REALLY" means about there being no salvation outside the Church.  We believe in, adhere to, and accept the "short answer" ... as you refer to it.

And what purpose does it serve or what fruit does it bear to equivocate so much about the dogma?  It does nothing more than to undermine belief in the dogma.  It doesn't lead to some gnostic "true understanding" but rather to disbelief.

Traditional Catholics can't seem to get their minds around the fact that the New Vatican II ecclesiology is simply the natural extension of belief that non-Catholics can be saved (which ironically many / most Traditional Catholics believe).

MAJOR:  There's no salvation outside the Church.
MINOR:  Non-Catholics (Protestants, Jєωs, Muslims) can be saved.
CONCLUSION:  Non-Catholics (Protestants, Jєωs, Muslims) can be inside the Church.

So if the Church can now include not only Catholics but also non-Catholics (Protestants, Jєωs, and Muslims), you've got V2 ecclesiology in a nutshell.  Trad Catholics (rightly) call out this V2 ecclesiology as heretical and yet ironically believe in the same ecclesiology if they simply think about it for 30 seconds.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2022, 12:58:33 PM »
Not totally criticizing your content but your tone... boy.

Describe the "tone" to which you object ... boy.

There not a word of what I wrote that isn't true, and the post to which I respond that was meant to "clarify" ... claimed to do so while asserting that nobody really knows what EES dogma means.

I think you don't LIKE the the tone because the criticism applies to you and to 90% of Traditional Catholics who think of and approach EENS dogma precisely as I described.

Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2022, 05:30:12 PM »
Describe the "tone" to which you object ... boy.

There not a word of what I wrote that isn't true, and the post to which I respond that was meant to "clarify" ... claimed to do so while asserting that nobody really knows what EES dogma means.

I think you don't LIKE the the tone because the criticism applies to you and to 90% of Traditional Catholics who think of and approach EENS dogma precisely as I described.


Your condescending tone:  

"So you basically rambled for 5 paragraphs claiming that nobody really knows what the very simple expression "No Salvation Outside the Church..."

Re: EENS - non-Catholic prayers answered and claims of private revelation
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2022, 06:13:57 PM »
So you basically rambled for 5 paragraphs claming that nobody really knows what the very simple expression "No Salvation Outside the Church" actually means and then asserted that this would help "clarify"?  This illustrates the problem.  That dogma is about as simple as it gets, and a child can understand it.  If you are not a Catholic, you can't go to heaven.  Period.

I was not trying to make this into a Feeneyite argument.  EENS is definitely a Church dogma.  Feeneyism isn't.
It is an opinion about defining how the Church exact understood the dogma.

The OP said that most Catholics he met did not believe in EENS.  I was trying to express in the first couple of paragraphs that almost all long standing traditional Catholics I know believe in the dogma but that some newcomers might be confused about it because they may have been tainted by previous novus ordo or protestant beliefs.  That is all I was trying to say in the first couple paragraphs.  

The OP's question was mainly about whether non-Catholics can receive revelations from God.  That was the part I meant to comment and help "clarify" concerning and say that it is possible but not likely.