Ok, but how do you really feel?

I think we beat this horse to death.

Nadie, your position is patently absurd. I don't need to write much, nor scream my words, as you do.

Everyone knows and accepts the solemn teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Quotes have been given for that here.

It is also known that anyone who calls into doubt solemn teaching has fallen away completely from the Faith.

Nadie, your position makes the Catechism of the Council of Trent, St. Alphonsus Liguouri and Pius IX all call into doubt previous solemn teaching...but nobody in the whole Church noticed, and it was never an issue!!

You are smarter than them all! Your position is absurd.

Below is quoted a previous posting response which sums up my position on baptism of desire of the catechumen, and baptism of blood. My position is clear, it is out in the light for all to see.

Your position on the other hand is hidden, either due to ignorance, or on purpose, I can't judge hearts.

Cupertino said: "Everyone knows and accepts the solemn teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church (EENS). Quotes have been given for that here."

Nadie answers: All the quotes on EENS were posted by me.

Cupertino said: It is also known that anyone who calls into doubt solemn teaching has fallen away completely from the Faith.

Nadie responds: Yes, EENS is dogmatic, and anyone who calls it into doubt has completely lost the faith

Cupertino said Nadie, your position makes the Catechism of the Council of Trent, St. Alphonsus Liguouri and Pius IX all call into doubt previous solemn teaching...but nobody in the whole Church noticed, and it was never an issue!!

Nadie responds: That is a perfect example of Protestant self opinion on your part. Not one authoritative quote from you, just your opinions. Are we supposed to take your word for it?

What previous "solemn teaching", dogmatic teaching, that can't be denied, are you referring too? Not even BOD of the catechumen has been solemnly declared, infallible declared, nor declared by the universal ordinary magisterium! More importantly, you have not clearly limited your "baptism of desire", to the (only real) baptism of desire which finds support from St. Alphonsus Ligouri, and St. Thomas. You are hiding behind baptism of desire of the catechumen,  of the Catechism of Trent, St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus, when you really believe in all the MUTANT false forms, which are actually opposed by The Catechism of Trent, St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus. Read below, and come out into the light and explain yourself.

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

Question for Nadie:

Were there not many and numerous medieval saints who believed in baptism of blood and desire? According to your logic, they would had to have been heretics.

Don't mix baptism of blood with baptism of desire of the catechumen, and all the other modern offshoots of it. That is just a tactic to FIND the support of some saints. A few saints don't make doctrine. Read all the dogmatic decrees I posted, not one mention of an excuse like BOD or BOB, not one in the history of the Church.

 There are maybe like 10 examples of baptism of blood saints in the 2000 year history. Not one can be proved not to have been baptized. Now, there are thousands upon thousands of examples of people who are incomprehensible just hanging on to life for the longest time, then they are baptized and immediately die. Fr. DeSmet  details thousands of such infant and elderly baptisms he administered himself in his book written in the 1850's. There are hundreds of examples of people sent back from the dead just to be baptized.

Why would God not provide any examples of baptism of blood except like 10 back 1800 years ago, and then God provides hundreds of thousands of examples of persons who scarcely held on to life and died by the groves (as described by Fr. Smet), immediately upon being baptized? Why would God provide so many examples of people sent back from the dead just to be baptized?

That's baptism of blood, and as for baptism of desire of the catechumen (forget all the other offshoots of it, they have no support from the medieval saints )there is not one single example in 2000 years.

Read all the dogmatic decrees I posted, not one mention of an excuse like BOD or BOB, not one in the history of the Church. Catholics follow dogma, not a story here and there over 2000 years.

As for calling anyone a heretic, I don't do that, not for BOB or BOD of the catechumen.  If a person wants to believe in baptism of blood, it's no big deal, a non-baptized person who dies wanting to be a baptized Catholic, where are they? I've never seen one. BOD of the catechumen, how many catechumens who died before being baptized can there be? One hear one there? Those theoretical loopholes, are not the problem, the problem is today that there are scarcely any believers in BOD and BOB that restrict their belief to just baptism of blood and baptism of desire of the catechumen, ALL of them believe in all the other offshoots to different levels, offshoots like implicit desire of those that don't even want to be Catholics or baptized, implicit faith, invincible ignorance, an invisible church that includes non-Catholic "good" people, and universal salvation for all. THAT IS THE PROBLEM, that seed brought us the false ecuмenism of Assisi, and Vatican II, what Catholics believe today, that basically outside of the church there IS salvation. That's the root cause of why we are in the predicament that we are in.

 :cool:

What did Pope Pius IX have to say about this matter?

What did Pope Pius IX have to say about this matter?

That we can have at least good hope for the salvation of those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error (Syllabus of Errors, Pius IX)

Quote from: nadieimportante

Quote from: Cupertino

Nadie, your position is patently absurd. I don't need to write much, nor scream my words, as you do.

Everyone knows and accepts the solemn teaching there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Quotes have been given for that here.

It is also known that anyone who calls into doubt solemn teaching has fallen away completely from the Faith.

Nadie, your position makes the Catechism of the Council of Trent, St. Alphonsus Liguouri and Pius IX all call into doubt previous solemn teaching...but nobody in the whole Church noticed, and it was never an issue!!

You are smarter than them all! Your position is absurd.

Below is quoted a previous posting response which sums up my position on baptism of desire of the catechumen, and baptism of blood. My position is clear, it is out in the light for all to see.

Your position on the other hand is hidden, either due to ignorance, or on purpose, I can't judge hearts.

No, it is perfectly open. I believe in the dogma of no salvation outside the Catholic Church, and I believe that the teachings of the Catechism of the Council of Trent, St. Alphonsus and Pius IX on the matter of baptism of desire are in perfect conformity with that dogma.

Your answer to these sources was that they are "not infallible" because you want to reject them as not being in conformity, otherwise you wouldn't say that. If they are not in conformity, then they call into doubt EENS. If they call EENS into doubt, they have fallen away completely from the divine Faith. Furthermore, nobody in the whole Church noticed for generations! But you do now. Your position is IMPOSSIBLE for Christ's divine Church.

You answered my question with the same answer that prompted my question. You are either ignorant of the subject matter or you are hiding your real beliefs.

Cupertino wrote: "I  believe that the teachings of the Catechism of the Council of Trent, St. Alphonsus and Pius IX",

Nadie answers: Catechism of Trent and St. Alphonsus both oppose Pius IX's belief in invincible ignorance (Inv Ign was invented in the 1600's). You are hiding your beilfs or you don't know what you believe

Come out into the light.

Quote from: gunfighter

Quote from: nadieimportante

Quote from: pax

What did Pope Pius IX have to say about this matter?

That we can have at least  good [/size]hope for the salvation of those who have never been in the true Church of Christ is hereby condemned as error (Syllabus of Errors, Pius IX)

This is why I believe that your are either of bad faith or do not have the necessary capacity to determine what is de fide.

The operative word that you totally disregard is GOOD.  No one has EVER stated that there is a GOOD chance of salvation.  In fact, all of the traditional Catholic proponents of BOD say it is  VERY RARE that some saves their soul through BOD.

I didn't say one thing or another, all I did was post the quote. You are totally out of line, saying I'm of bad faith.

Besides, if the dogmatic decree on EENS "absolutely no one can be saved outside of the Church, even if they shed their blood for Christ" can be twisted to mean that that pretty much anyone can be saved, then what's the big deal about this word "good"? Get real.  

If you are of bad faith then you lack the ability to analyze doctrine.  All of you cites, do not address the question that you answer with them.

No one has said that "pretty much anyone can be saved."  We have said it is EXTREMELY RARE.  Since you seem to constantly misrepresent the Church's position on the issue, it is logical to assume you are of bad faith.

To address your rhetorical question.  If a protestant sheds his blood for Christ, but holds steadfast to his heresy, he is NOT saved.

To address your rhetorical question.  If a protestant sheds his blood for Christ, but holds steadfast to his heresy, he is NOT saved.

IMHO, a Protstant cannot shed his blood for Christ, for he rejects the true Chrust and sets up a cardboard christ in His place.