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Author Topic: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires  (Read 4573 times)

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Re: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 01:45:26 PM »
You are using a bad translation of the Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X (the implication being that Pope Saint Pius X supposedly didn't teach baptism of desire and baptism of blood).

Incorrect. 
If we look at the original catechism of Pope Saint Pius X published in 1912, we can clearly see Pope Saint Pius X teaching not only baptism of desire and baptism of blood, but also on the soul of the Church. Here are photocopies of the appropriate pages in the original Catechism published in 1912:   Catechism cover   Page 24–25   Page 48-49.

Page 25 contains Question 132 which contains the text, "132. Chi è fuori della Chiesa si salva? Chi è fuori della Chiesa per propria colpa e muore senza dolore perfetto, non si salva; ma chi ci si trovi senza propria colpa e viva bene, può salvarsi con l'amor di carità, che unisce a Dio, e, in spirito, anche alla Chiesa, cioè all'anima di lei." 

This is the same exact Italian text easily found through Google searches. While the authors of this website do not speak Italian, even a broken Google translation of the above text clearly shows Pope Saint Pius X teaching that one can be saved in the soul of the Church through perfect contrition. Google translation: "132. Who is outside the Church is saved? Who is outside the Church through their own fault and die without pain perfect, you do not save it, but whoever you are find no fault of their own and live well, can be saved with the love of charity, which unites with God, and, spirit, even in the Church, that her soul."

Pages 48-49 contain Question 280 which contains the text, "280. Se il Battesimo necessario a tutti, può salvarsi nessuno senza Battesimo? Senza Battesimo nessuno può salvarsi, quando però non si possa ricevere il Battesimo di acqua, basta il Battesimo di sangue, cioè il martirio sofferto per Gesù Cristo, oppure il Battesimo di desiderio che é l'amor di carità, desideroso dei mezzi di salute istituiti da Dio."

Again, this is the same exact Italian text easily found through Google searches. Even a broken Google translation of the above text clearly shows Pope Saint Pius X teaching both baptism of desire and baptism of blood. Google translation: "280. If the Baptism necessary at all, no one can be saved without Baptism? Nobody can be saved without baptism, but when we can not receive Bapt

Re: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 03:55:58 PM »
Pretty funny OP, now that I look at it after almost 2 months. Hard to believe that the SSPX teaches that stuff. What a joke.



Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 05:39:25 PM »
Anyone who's a Catholic, when asked whether a Jew or a Mohammedan or a Protestant or a schismatic can be saved, MUST ANSWER NO.  To say anything else constitutes nothing less than an obviously heretical denial of Catholic dogma.

Now, the only way to get people into the Church and, therefore, saved ... without this blatant heresy ... is to apply distinctions, in particular, the formal vs. material distinction.  I know a Protestant.  Even though he looks like a Protestant, goes to a Protestant Church, believes as Protestants do, etc., he's really deep down, without even knowing it, a Catholic.  In other words, he's materially a Protestant but formally Catholic.  Tragically, most Catholics, and most Traditional Catholics even, do not even answer this way, and are therefore in open heresy on the matter.  But for those that DO make this distinction, what we have here is nothing other than ANONYMOUS CATHOLICISM.  Tip of the hat to Karl Rahner.

And, what we have here is nothing other than VATICAN II ECCLESIOLOGY, where, within the Church, and therefore eligible for salvation, are not only Catholics, but all kinds of people who, while appearing to be non-Catholic on the outside (materially), are really Catholic on the inside (formally).  So we have this strange frankenchurch which consists of Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Mohammedans, etc.  And EVERY SINGLE ERROR OF VATICAN II reduces to THIS FUNDAMENTAL ECCLESIOLOGICAL PROBLEM.

So most Traditional Catholics are really ANONYMOUS CONCILIARISTS.

Honestly, if I believed this crap that most Traditional Catholics promote, then I would have no choice but to state that there's nothing substantially wrong with Vatican II and that I have been schismatic for having been out of communion with the Post-Vatican II Church.

Re: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 11:04:44 AM »
 I know a Protestant.  Even though he looks like a Protestant, goes to a Protestant Church, believes as Protestants do, etc., he's really deep down, without even knowing it, a Catholic.  In other words, he's materially a Protestant but formally Catholic.  Tragically, most Catholics, and most Traditional Catholics even, do not even answer this way, and are therefore in open heresy on the matter.  
If he "behaves" like  a Catholic, he will convert before death, for if he is close to being a Catholic as you observe, it is only because he has accepted God's actual graces. His lack of formal conversion is a sign to me that he still has little white rabbits that he does not want to abandon. Until he becomes a Catholic and goes to confession, he will not receive any sanctifying grace, the ultimate gift of God.

St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant

People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!
St. Peter Julian Eymard


Re: Dogmatic Decrees? We Will Interpret Them to Our Desires
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 08:27:27 AM »
The BODers have to change dogma's meaning in order to teach what they do, however, there are too many dogmas to change. When you see even these few dogma's all together and how they respond to them in reality, it is truly comical. Nevertheless, their response is foundational to the Vatican II religion, without their end run around the dogmas by their "salvation by belief in a God that rewards", there would be no Vatican II revolution.