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Poll

Can Protestants be saved, without becoming Catholic, at least in the hour of death?

Yes, they can be saved, as Protestants, provided invincible ignorance excuses them from heresy.
8 (19%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can be and so it's ok to leave them in ignorance.
0 (0%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can't be and thus I pray and work to convert them.
9 (21.4%)
No, Protestants cannot be saved without having become Catholic before death.
23 (54.8%)
Other (please explain).
2 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 34

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Author Topic: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?  (Read 16671 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2018, 09:18:02 PM »
Quote
Lad: Yes, it's, (i.e. Lefebvre's position on EENS) a grave error, an almost word-for-word contradiction of the Church's dogmatic definitions of EENS.


Quote
struth: Look hollingsworth, Catholics believe in dogma and not in fallible men. And you cry like a heathen "oh vey, they touched my idols". Grow up!

OK, we've got two of you on record.  Where's NO?  Laddy says that ABL was in "grave error."  And struth believes in dogma, not fallible men like ABL.  What a champion of the faith he is!
How about you, Matthew?  Do you take a similar position?  Are you in the camp of these two theological CI giants? Do you reject "fallible men" like the Archbishop, while declaring unyielding, unwavering allegiance to true "dogma?"  This is your blog.  You reprint everything that +Williamson writes, who, along with the other bishops I am certain, holds the erroneous views of ABL.  Where do you stand, sir? After all, you say this is a Resistance site, and +W is the putative leader of that Resistance.  How about it?
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Offline Struthio

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2018, 09:26:51 PM »
@hollingsworth

My thumb up for asking pertinent questions. Whether one believes in dogma or in fallible men.
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Offline Struthio

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2018, 09:36:07 PM »
@hollingsworth


Did you notice that we're in "The Feeneyism Ghetto" here? Like in the deepest part of hell, where noone can hear you?
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Offline poche

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2018, 10:40:36 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on September 19, 2018, 05:37:52 AM
Don't you believe this ^^^^ lying crap poche.

This is the truth:
"The Doctrine of Exclusive Salvation is described as fundamental or "foundational" to Catholic theology. It is called the "Dogma of Faith," because, of a truth, unless a person accepts it in all its momentous absoluteness, he really does not accept the Catholic Faith, howsoever he protests that he does. Conversely, he who dilutes this doctrine to any degree, so radically distorts the Faith that he renders it null and void, and his own faith in the bargain. For he who denies this doctrine makes Catholicity hardly more than a nicety, as if membership in the Church were like the first-class compartment on a commercial airliner, in which the majority of others will arrive at the same destination, really none the worse for their second-class transport." - Fr. Wathen, Who Shall Ascend?
In another place the soul describes the entry into Heaven of a woman who was not Catholic but who died making an act of perfect contrition, which was accepted by God.
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Offline Nishant Xavier

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2018, 11:43:48 PM »
Hi Christy. I won't cite a theological text to you, but maybe you could read this remnant article, written by a now Traditional Catholic woman who was a little girl around the time of Vatican II. It shows how most Catholics, even little children, used to think and speak not that long ago. And the fruits were so good! +ABL says, in a 1966 letter, "conversions of pagans and Protestants were numerous".
Quote
"My friends knew all sorts of things about Heaven. It was amazing. It was like they shared some secret knowledge. There was no doubt in their minds that Heaven was a place, and they talked about it as if they had been there. I clamored to know more.
They looked at each other, shook their heads, then looked sadly at me.
“But you can’t go to Heaven,” they said.
“Why not?”
“’Cause you’re not Catholic.”
“What do I have to do to be Catholic?”
“You have to go to Catechism.”
Those words struck my heart like an arrow. Even though I was not able to actually “go to Catechism” until I was a sophomore in college, I made up my mind right then. I would be Catholic. A real one, not just one saying the Nicene Creed in the whitewashed Episcopal Church, wondering how I could believe in the One Holy Catholic Church and not be in it.
Those nine-year-old girls possessed the Truth, and they didn’t hesitate to let me know it. They told me what was necessary for salvation because I was their friend. They didn’t dilute the doctrine. I didn’t need to know about the exceptions. I just needed to be Catholic.
Please spare me the nuances. They exist, I understand that. There can be people in Heaven that we didn’t think would be there. That’s good. I have no idea how the Lord goes about rescuing people at the last minute who didn’t enter the Church during their life. I don’t pretend to know how grace burns the unbelief from their minds before their souls depart this world, but I don’t have to know those extraordinary things. That’s God’s business.
All I know is that every human being on this earth needs to be rescued from Hell. Our Lord died to secure a place for us in Heaven. He founded a Church, the One True Church which is necessary for the salvation of souls.
If that’s not true, then everything we’re doing is a waste of time. Why should we fight so hard? Why should we hold so closely to Tradition? Why should we struggle to stand against the flood of immorality and despair that engulfs the world? What does it matter? What’s the point? If there is salvation outside the Catholic Church, then we don’t have to do anything. Just jump right back in the Sea of Unknowing.
For myself, I’d rather be like my old friends, those valiant girls who first told me what I had to do to save my soul."
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/3931-where-have-all-the-catholics-gone

Hi Stubborn. Yes, we have to be Catholic to be saved. We never pass final judgment, but we pray that God gives all souls the grace to become Catholic and repent of their sins and heresies before the end of their lives. And we work to deliver them from their error and help them enter the Church. I've cited two holy Priests Fr. Mueller and Fr. Damen. I can cite incidents in the lives of two Saintly Priests - St. John Marie Vianney and St. Padre Pio - where, beside the many souls they converted in life, these two Saints have informed or announced the hidden deathbed conversion of others whom the Saints and others in their family was praying for. True doctrine is important, and true doctrine is we all need to be Catholic to be saved; but doctrine without love of souls is dead, just like faith without works is dead, and bears no fruit. Fr. Damen made 10s of thousands of converts from Protestantism, and the love he had for the Protestant souls he ministered to and, by the grace of God, converted to the Faith, is evident. And love for souls is what is necessary for apostolates to bear fruit. Is the Church, even in Tradition, doing the same today? Every convert is a cause for joy, and a work of God's grace. But how many converts are we making and receiving? One reason is all of us are not praying and sacrificing for sinners and for conversions as much as Our Lord and Lady have asked. Those are works of love which we all should be doing more.

Faith is important, but not faith alone; faith with works of love is necessary, as St. Paul says. So, also true doctrine, with love for souls.
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