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Poll

Can Protestants be saved, without becoming Catholic, at least in the hour of death?

Yes, they can be saved, as Protestants, provided invincible ignorance excuses them from heresy.
8 (19%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can be and so it's ok to leave them in ignorance.
0 (0%)
I'm not sure if they can be saved. I assume they can't be and thus I pray and work to convert them.
9 (21.4%)
No, Protestants cannot be saved without having become Catholic before death.
23 (54.8%)
Other (please explain).
2 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?  (Read 16657 times)

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Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 10:57:13 AM »
So, the Council of Florence got it wrong, then, Hollingsworth, "The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

Do you not know what St. Theresa said about Luther and Calvin, how their false presumption deceived them and led them to hell?

Also, there was a mystic to whom Our Lady used to appear. And in those days when every Catholic used to believe heretics must become Catholics to be saved, when asked by Protestants, "Can we Protestants be saved?" She gave a non-committal answer, like most Catholics today would give, "I can't judge that". But Our Lady said, "My daughter, since you had too much human respect, I won't appear to you again". And She did not. Catholics, when asked, should say you must be Catholic to be saved. Pope St. Pius X authorized the Holy Office decree that taught, "Catholic, when interrogated, should answer that those who die as infidels are damned."

St. Alphonsus always preached heretics and infidels who died in final impenitence were lost. Oh !what an invaluable benefit is the gift of faith ! How many millions of souls, among infidels and heretics, are deprived of the Sacraments, of sermons, of good example,and of the other helps to salvation which we possess in the true Church."

Edit: Jayne, the person who voted Protestants for the first option probably disagrees with you. Protestants, as Protestants, can't be saved. What St. Alphonsus says of infidels, “Still we answer the Semipelagians, and say, that infidels who arrive at the use of reason, and are not converted to the Faith, cannot be excused ... if the infidel cooperates with this movement, observing the precepts of the law of nature, and abstaining from grievous sins, he will certainly receive, through the merits of Jesus Christ, the grace proximately sufficient to embrace the Faith, and save his soul.” applies in the same way to heretics. To be saved, Jesus requires of Protestants what the Church does - to renounce pagan and Protestant errors, and ask to receive the gift of Catholic Faith, and salvation.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 11:33:20 AM »
Can Protestants be saved without becoming Catholic? we know some Protestants are baptized as infants. Justification is not the issue here. The issue is whether they can obtain the special grace the Doctors and the Church call final perseverance (the grace promised for e.g. by the Sacred Heart to all Catholic Christians to keep the Nine First Fridays, and by the Immaculate Heart Herself to all deeply devoted to Her by the Rosary, who keep the First Saturdays), a special form of which is the grace (since it is a grace, this means God alone gives it, and He can choose not to give it, unless Prots become Catholic first) never to commit mortal sin again (and this wondrous and most precious grace - which we should desire for ourselves and for our children with all our hearts, the Twin Hearts together promised to all who make a Great Double Novena of 9 First Fridays and 9 First Saturdays together, after Sacramental Confession and a good Preparation - please see http://lapieta.tripod.com/dnov_ena.html for more on that) which corresponds to a high state of merit, a high degree of grace. If a person attains this level of grace, especially in infancy or while still quite young, as Jesus so earnestly urges in the link, he can well hope to have a rich crown of merit in heaven.

[...]

So, can Protestants be saved, as Protestants? Can we agree at least that it is a moral impossibility to obtain final perseverance, without Holy Mass, without Holy Communion, without Eucharistic adoration - and especially when one has contempt and despises these things?
Remember, one of the sins that cannot be forgiven, is the sin of never having become a member of the Catholic Church. Those who die in this state, die outside of the Church, as such will always die with this mortal sin on their soul. You have the wrong idea of what Final Perseverance is.

Next, the idea of anyone outside the Church having their sins forgiven at all is heresy, because the dogma clearly states that: "We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins" - this is dogma and we are bound under pain of mortal sin to believe it as decreed by Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctum.

Finally, we cannot say that the only requirement for prots' salvation is to die without sin because we are bound to merit salvation via good works - this is something prots, who believe (false) faith alone is necessary and live their lives wholly rejecting as heresy that works are a requirement for salvation. If prots can be saved, then error is meritorious and, as V2 preaches, everyone can be saved.

So, no, Protestants cannot be saved without having become Catholic before death.


Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 03:22:04 PM »
A baptised Protestant child under the age of 7 most likely would be saved. Through Baptism we are joined with the Church(and even Baptisms by heretics can be valid), it's only by the embracement of heresy that Protestants are separated from the Church. A child under 7 having not achieved the age of reason would be spared the sin of heresy AFAIK and therefore still count as a member of the Church. Although that would be in spite of the child being a Protestant.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 06:55:52 PM »
A baptized Protestant child under the age of 7 most likely would be saved. Through Baptism we are joined with the Church (and even Baptisms by heretics can be valid), it's only by the embracement of heresy that Protestants are separated from the Church. A child under 7 having not achieved the age of reason would be spared the sin of heresy AFAIK and therefore still count as a member of the Church. Although that would be in spite of the child being a Protestant.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
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It is Catholic teaching that Baptism makes a person a member of the Catholic Church, and wipes out not only original sin but any actual sin along with any Purgatory associated with the actual sin. Therefore any baptized child, even among Protestants, before the age of reason who dies is saved and goes straight to heaven. When you get right down to brass tacks, no child becomes "Protestant" until the age of reason.
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But how does a Protestant Baptism have the power to make this happen? The Sacrament of Baptism is not Protestant. It is Catholic, and when administered validly in a Protestant setting it is effective even though it is stolen from the Catholic Church. This is similar to a valid Eucharist consecrated by a priest who is in the state of mortal sin.
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Whether a specific child under 7 years old (Protestant or not) has yet reached the age of reason or not, is a question that varies from child to child and ultimately God is the only qualified judge.

Re: Do you believe Protestants, as Protestants, can be saved?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 07:07:28 PM »
Xavier:

  Anne Catherine Emmerich, the renowned German seer, testifies that she saw Protestant souls in Purgatory.

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She was German so this must be translated, perhaps losing something in the translation.
She must have meant that she saw people in Purgatory whom she had KNOWN to be Protestants in life.
They would have had to convert to become Catholic before they died in order to be eligible for Purgatory.
Protestants don't believe in Purgatory, so how could they go there?
Would they have to remain in Purgatory until they abandon their infidelity and accept the reality that Purgatory is real?
Who says that is what Purgatory is for, or, if that can even happen in Purgatory?