Author Topic: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?  (Read 2558 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2019, 09:47:38 PM »
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  • Not saved in the sense of final perseverance.  Whether or not you agree with Father Feeney's application, it's absolutely true that there cannot strictly be any salvation until one has died with the grace of final perseverance.

    Yes, yes, I agree with this.

    The point of the quote was Christ referred to a living person as saved now, present tense, when He is referring to the infallibly decreed future of one of His elect. The Roman Catechism, similarly, says "would avail," referring to a future state of a living catechumen if . . .

    Not buying Stubborn's "grace and righteousness" refers to the living, and "salvation" only to the dead. Again, Jesus referred to one of His elect - who would be saved strictly speaking, futuro - as saved, present tense.

    DR
    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Offline verilyCatholic

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #46 on: March 15, 2019, 09:52:04 PM »
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  • Pius IX proclaimed Baptism of desire for some people outside the Church. As far as I have seen, no cleric has ever said he was wrong, not even Fr. Feeney.



    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #47 on: March 15, 2019, 09:56:34 PM »
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  • Hold on, there.  Before you interpret Christ as supporting a protestantized “I’m already saved!” ideal, it would be wise to study the Latin word that St Jerome used.  The translation of “saved” into English could be wrong or inexact.   

    Secondly, I always interpreted that passage to mean “Thy Faith has saved thee”...FROM SIN (ie state of mortal sin).  Makes no sense for Christ to be speaking of eternal salvation as there are absolutely no other biblical ideas of this nature anywhere else, and plenty of passages which contradict your interpretation.  

    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #48 on: March 15, 2019, 10:46:56 PM »
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  • To whom it may concern,


    In Fr Wathen's book Who Shall Ascend, he does in fact claim the term BOD and BOB do not appear in the Catechism of the Council of Trent until the Nineteenth century. It is in the first footnote of Part one-chapter three, section C. I will copy/paste it here with the paragraph it is footing. I must confess some sloppiness here as I put the wrong page number down. It is page 112 in my PDF copy.


    Salvation cannot be gained by the merest desire for it, or a vague willingness to do God's will, or an unexpressed tolerance of God's existence and sovereignty, or whatever other way in which the term "baptism of desire" is understood, whose number seems as great as there are individuals who swear by it. And it is dishonest for anyone to deny that a major problem with the use of the expression is that no one may define the word authoritatively, and to act as if those who do not accept this definition are unreasonable or stone-hearted. The Church has never defined the word, nor used it in any of its official statements. 1.

    1 Some will want to assert that the terms "baptism of desire" and "baptism of blood" are taught in "The Catechism of the Council of Trent. "Item1: In the original edition of The Catechism, there is no mention of either term. In fact, one will not find the insertion of these terms therein until the late Nineteenth century.



    To DecemRationis,
    I do not no on what authority Fr Wathen bases this position.
    Pray the Holy Rosary.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #49 on: March 15, 2019, 11:05:20 PM »
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  • Hold on, there.  Before you interpret Christ as supporting a protestantized “I’m already saved!” ideal, it would be wise to study the Latin word that St Jerome used.  The translation of “saved” into English could be wrong or inexact.  

    Secondly, I always interpreted that passage to mean “Thy Faith has saved thee”...FROM SIN (ie state of mortal sin).  Makes no sense for Christ to be speaking of eternal salvation as there are absolutely no other biblical ideas of this nature anywhere else, and plenty of passages which contradict your interpretation.  
    Come on, Pax, are you even reading what I write - the "point of the quote was Christ referred to a living person as saved now, present tense" - actually he said, "saved," past tense - "when HE is referring to the infallibly decreed future of one of His elect."

    I'm not interpreting according to a "protestantized 'I'm already saved!" I'm simply being open to the reality of language and it's usages.

    Were the elect saved when God chose them before the foundation of the world, before they were even born? In one sense, absolutely.  

    And faith (with hope and charity) saves, the faith you exercise when alive, not dead. How can faith save if you must have it when alive - if you're only saved when dead? And don't tell me faith only saves from sin, not from eternal damnation.

    Again, I'm simply being open to the reality of language and its usages.

    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #50 on: March 15, 2019, 11:06:38 PM »
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  • To whom it may concern,


    In Fr Wathen's book Who Shall Ascend, he does in fact claim the term BOD and BOB do not appear in the Catechism of the Council of Trent until the Nineteenth century. It is in the first footnote of Part one-chapter three, section C. I will copy/paste it here with the paragraph it is footing. I must confess some sloppiness here as I put the wrong page number down. It is page 112 in my PDF copy.


    Salvation cannot be gained by the merest desire for it, or a vague willingness to do God's will, or an unexpressed tolerance of God's existence and sovereignty, or whatever other way in which the term "baptism of desire" is understood, whose number seems as great as there are individuals who swear by it. And it is dishonest for anyone to deny that a major problem with the use of the expression is that no one may define the word authoritatively, and to act as if those who do not accept this definition are unreasonable or stone-hearted. The Church has never defined the word, nor used it in any of its official statements. 1.

    1 Some will want to assert that the terms "baptism of desire" and "baptism of blood" are taught in "The Catechism of the Council of Trent. "Item1: In the original edition of The Catechism, there is no mention of either term. In fact, one will not find the insertion of these terms therein until the late Nineteenth century.



    To DecemRationis,
    I do not no on what authority Fr Wathen bases this position.
    Wow. Thanks Joe. Need to do some investigating now. 
    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Online Motorede

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #51 on: March 15, 2019, 11:23:54 PM »
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  • Come on, Pax, are you even reading what I write - the "point of the quote was Christ referred to a living person as saved now, present tense" - actually he said, "saved," past tense - "when HE is referring to the infallibly decreed future of one of His elect."

    I'm not interpreting according to a "protestantized 'I'm already saved!" I'm simply being open to the reality of language and it's usages.

    Were the elect saved when God chose them before the foundation of the world, before they were even born? In one sense, absolutely.  

    And faith (with hope and charity) saves, the faith you exercise when alive, not dead. How can faith save if you must have it when alive - if you're only saved when dead? And don't tell me faith only saves from sin, not from eternal damnation.

    Again, I'm simply being open to the reality of language and its usages.
    I don't think your quote provides enough information for us to determine that Our Lord was speaking to her as "being saved" in the Old Law or the New Law. As far as we know she might have died before the New Law was instituted as did the Good Thief. Her faith would have saved her under the old dispensation b/c faith in the promised Messias to come plus contrition for sins would avail unto salvation. Under the New Dispensation:No. She would have needed the Sacraments--at least holy Baptism. So I don't think your chapter and verse quote help this discussion because we don't know the woman's future.

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #52 on: March 16, 2019, 01:09:38 AM »
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  • In all the commentaries on Acts 10:44-48, you will find (and St. Luke and St. Peter themselves imply it) that Cornelius the catechumen (and both St. Augustine and St. Thomas also teach this) received the Holy Spirit before his Baptism. Thus, he received justification by Baptism of Desire and salvation after receiving the Sacrament. The question is, whether all who receive Baptism of Desire will also receive the Sacrament of Baptism? Here, St. Augustine answers yes, certainly, while St. Thomas answers, no, not necessarily. This question is not settled by the Magisterium. St. Augustine's position is theologically defensible. There is a text in the Gospel of Nicodemus which has come up in recent research that suggests the Ot patriarchs were actually baptized in some way before entering heaven. If so, that would support St. Augustine's position. In the Middle Ages, there was that decree of Pope Innocent that said one can hold the opinion of the Blessed Fathers. The text of St. Augustine cited there, that "Baptism is administered invisibly" to the person who desired and did not despise it is not clear whether it refers to Baptism of Desire or to the Sacrament of Baptism. At any rate, the Church certainly decreed that justified catechumens will be certainly saved, because Baptism will at least invisibly be administered to them.

    Now, for those of you who agree with the Dimonds and think BOD is a "heresy", especially if you are sedevacantists, explain why Pope St. Pius X and Pope St. Pius V (and Pope Leo XIII who approved the Baltimore Catechism etc) did not "lose their office" upon approving it.

    Catechism of Pope St. Pius X: "17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way? A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire."

    This clear and straightforward. Baptism of Desire certainly exists and the Dimonds are wrong and themselves outside the Church, where there is no hope or possibility of salvation, unless they return. Fr. Feeney's opinion as held by St. Benedict's centre has been declared permissible by the Church and requires closer study. It is an acceptable theological position but has not been absolutely proven yet.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.


    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #53 on: March 16, 2019, 01:35:15 AM »
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  • To answer some of the questions/objections directed at me, (sorry about the formatting; haven't got it right yet and haven't got the time to figure it out now)

    Quote
    How does one arrive at the state of grace before baptism?


    How did all men from Adam to Christ for 5200 years obtain grace and justice? They received forgiveness through an Act of Contrition, or perfect love of God above all things, along with the explicit desire to do all the things He had commanded. There are countless examples of this in Sacred Scripture right from King David's tears of contrition, St. Mary Magdalene weeping at the feet of Christ (and the Lord says, her sins, which are many, are forgiven), St. Peter weeping after his denial etc even before Cornelius the Centurion received the Holy Spirit before his Baptism - a clear reference to Baptism by Desire of the Sacrament. Wherefore I say to thee: Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much. But to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less. (Luk 7:47)


    Quote
    Do you know what P[e]lagianism is?

    Yes. Pelagius was a British monk who believed human nature without grace could perform meritorious actions, which is heretical. Baptism of Desire is not a natural act, but a supernatural grace which God gives for the forgiveness of sins. I advise everyone to read the article which is posted. St. Augustine compares justification to conception and perseverance to birth.


    Quote
    Please note that Baptism of Desire is NOT the Sacrament of Baptism.

    Nobody said it was. Baptism of Desire may be a precursor to the Sacrament of Baptism, though, as it was for Cornelius.

    The Lord Jesus Himself said to St. Catherine of Sienna, "St. Catherine of Sienna (14th Century)Dialogue of St. Catherine: Baptisms: "I wished thee to see the secret of the Heart, showing it to thee open, so that you mightest see how much more I loved than I could show thee by finite pain. I poured from it Blood and Water, to show thee the baptism of water which is received in virtue of the Blood. I also showed the baptism of love in two ways, first in those who are baptized in their blood shed for Me which has virtue through My Blood, even if they have not been able to have Holy Baptism, and also those who are baptized in fire, not being able to have Holy Baptism, but desiring it with the affection of love. There is no baptism of desire without the Blood, because Blood is steeped in and kneaded with the fire of Divine charity, because through love was it shed. There is yet another way by which the soul receives the baptism of Blood, speaking, as it were, under a figure, and this way the Divine charity provided, knowing the infirmity and fragility of an, through which he offends, not that he is obliged, through his fragility and infirmity, to commit sin, unless he wish to do so; by falling, as he will, into the guild of mortal sin, by which he loses the grace which he drew from Holy Baptism in virtue of the Blood, it was necessary to leave a continual baptism of blood. This the Divine charity provided in the Sacrament of Holy Confession, the soul receiving the Baptism of blood, with contrition of heart, confessing, when able, to My ministers, who hold the keys of the Blood, sprinkling It, in absolution, upon the face of the soul. But if the soul is unable to confess, contrition of heart is sufficient for this baptism, the hand of My clemency giving you the fruit of this precious Blood... Thou seest then that these Baptisms, which you should all receive until the last moment, are continual, and though My works, that is the pains of the Cross were finite, the fruit of them which you receive in Baptism, through Me, are infinite..." From: http://baptismofdesire.com/





    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #54 on: March 16, 2019, 02:44:51 AM »
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  • With all due respect sir,



    How did all men from Adam to Christ for 5200 years obtain grace and justice?

    First of all, you shouldn't use your own personal exegesis to over turn the literal meanings of defined dogma. To do so is to deny the intentionality of language which means all defined truth needs further clarification in order to be held as true which robs it (Truth) and the speaker of it (the Magisterium) of authority and gives it (the authority) to the usurping "Pharisees" who presume to know better. Be very careful there young man, what I'm speaking of is condemned by pope Saint Pius the X in Lamentabili (  The dogmas of the faith are to be held only according to a practical sense, that is, as preceptive norms for action, but not as norms for believing. Condemned! ). On the contrary we must believe that when the Council of Trent defines that the only remedy for Original Sin is the Sacrament of Baptism in the form of the Church the case is closed. There is no forgiveness of Original Sin or sanctifying grace without Baptism. Actual grace only, which was the case of Cornelius who in fact still required Baptism.

    Secondly, they didn't. They all went to Hell and waited for Jesus to go there and grant them Justification and then they still waited there to follow Him to heaven, yes even the Good Thief.





    As for Cornelius, well he is as far removed from the Church as any non-Christian will ever be. He was separated geographically by a dangerous multiple day journey, he had no knowledge of the Catholic church or anyone who could lead him to the truth, and worse of all, St. Peter probably would not converse with him much less enter his home or initiate him into the church as St. Peter (and consequently the Church following Peter’s direction) would consider that “casting pearls before swine.” Cornelius was a religious man who had a fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of faith; he practiced natural virtue and was given grace from God including the gift of tongues as an external manifestation to Peter of God’s grace in Cornelius. Cornelius cooperated with the prevenient grace of God and moved his will to do what was necessary for his salvation. Miracles ensued which led to his evangelization and baptism. The obvious lesson from this story, believed by the early church, is that the Church is universal, but also learned here is that physical circumstances cannot impede Divine Providence or interdict the necessity of the sacrament of baptism.

    How about that pious story of a Saint. We can no more overturn defined dogma with those than we can with our own interpretation of Holy Scripture.

    I hope I have helped,


    Pray the Holy Rosary.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #55 on: March 16, 2019, 04:33:39 AM »
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  • Stubborn,

    For agreeing with Karam? Fr. Feeney said he agreed with Karam.

    DR
    No, for the article saying: "...baptism of the Holy Spirit, without the actual reception of Baptism of water, can be sufficient for salvation if the following five conditions are fulfilled . . ."

    I am sure that Fr. Feeney never agreed with this because this would have been his "pinch of incense". 
    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #56 on: March 16, 2019, 04:50:20 AM »
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  • What about the women to whom Jesus said, "your faith hath saved you." She was quite alive.
    Almost the same difference. Yes, Trent's catechism is also talking about a person still alive, the difference is that Christ's words let us know that for the women, there can be no doubt that they went away in the state of grace and righteousness.

    The Catechism otoh, stops short of any such certainty, rather it says that by the intention to receive, we only put ourselves in the way ("avail") of grace and righteousness.

    So by Christ's words we are certain they were in grace and righteousness, whereas by Trent's teaching, the only thing for certain, is that the intention puts us in a position to receive grace and righteousness, not salvation. Which is to say that the intention does not guarantee grace and righteousness at all, let alone salvation. Yet regardless of all this, the BODers insist on saying this passage from the catechism proves the Church teaches a BOD.  

     

     


    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #57 on: March 16, 2019, 08:04:53 AM »
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  • Dear JoeZ, it's not my interpretation, friend, I can show you several approved commentaries that exegete the text in the same manner.

    Fr. Haydock, Fr. Lapide etc will tell you that St. Magdalene, King David, St. Peter, Cornelius etc received forgiveness through Contrition.

    Can you show me a source that confirms your opinion? Please see Haydock on Cornelius here:
    https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/ntcomment105.shtml

    Also, the booklet entitled "Perfect Contrition: The Golden Key to Paradise [including for all of us(!)]":
    https://www.ecatholic2000.com/cts/untitled-110.shtml

    "III. IS IT DIFFICULT TO MAKE AN ACT OF PERFECT CONTRITION? No doubt, it is more difficult to make an act of Perfect Contrition than an Imperfect one, which suffices when we go to Confession. But still, there is no one who, if he sincerely wishes it, cannot, with the grace of God, make an act of Perfect Contrition. Sorrow is in the will, not in the senses or feelings. All that is needed is that we repent because we love God above everything else; that is all. True it is that Perfect Contrition has its degrees, but it is none the less perfect because it does not reach the intensity and sublimity of the sorrow of St. Peter, of St. Mary Magdalene, or of St. Aloysius. Such a degree is very desirable, but is by no means necessary. A lesser degree, but, provided it proceeds from the love of God, and not through fear of His punishments, is quite sufficient. And it is very consoling to remember that for the 4000 years before the coming of Christ the only means sinners had of obtaining pardon was this same Perfect Contrition. There was no Sacrament of Penance in those days. Even today for thousands-aye, for millions-of pagans, of non-Catholics, and of Catholics, too, who have no time to call a priest to their bedside, the only means of pardon and salvation is an act of Perfect Contrition."

    Many "traditionalists" (not speaking of you, dear Joe) have the wrong spirit today. It's no more about the salvation of souls, which is to be the supreme law even of the Church (Suprema Lex Salus Animarum, it is said in Canon Law) and the raison d'etre of man on this earth. To some so called traditionalists, its all about condemning others and closing the gates of heaven to them, while justifying oneself, and hoping to go to heaven like that. God has said through His Saints, "In the evening of life, we will all be judged by our love". Perfect Contrition united to the desire of the sacraments and the will to do all that God wills is not just a means to be applied once at the end of life a few minutes before Water Baptism. It is a means of forgiveness throughout life, from the first moment of reason till last breath. Everyone can obtain forgiveness and justification even every day through it, because God's Grace makes that possible to all.

    Quote
    They all went to Hell and waited for Jesus to go there and grant them Justification and then they still waited there to follow Him to heaven, yes even the Good Thief.

    No, the just went to Abraham's bosom or limbo, like Lazarus, and the wicked went to hell, like Dives. if there was no difference in the state of all who descended, then either they would never have been able to be saved, or even the unjust would have been saved, which is wrong. St. Thomas explains: there is original sin as it affects the person and as it affects human nature; on the part of each individual person, it was necessary for it to be remitted by contrition and the desire to do God's Will. On the part of human nature, it was only remitted after Christ's Passion, as it were, by the shed blood of Christ, in anticipation of which Christ had already forgiven personal sins, to those who sincerely repented with contrition and sorrow for their sins. After His Passion, He opened Heaven to them, but not to all.

    Is it possible He even baptized them? Judge for yourself. Here's the text in the Gospel of Nicodemus, "only three days were allowed to us who have risen from the dead to celebrate in Jerusalem the passover of the Lord, with our living relations, for an evidence of the resurrection of Christ the Lord: and we have been baptized in the holy river of Jordan, receiving each of us white robes. And after three days, when we had celebrated the passover of the Lord, all who rose again along with us were snatched up into the clouds, and taken across the Jordan, and were no longer seen by any one."http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08072b.htm

    This is why I think St. Augustine's opinion is quite possible. But St. Augustine is not saying what you are saying, which seems mistaken. If everybody died unjustified, everyone before Christ would have descended into hell of the damned and remained there.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #58 on: March 16, 2019, 08:25:44 AM »
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  • To answer some of the questions/objections directed at me, (sorry about the formatting; haven't got it right yet and haven't got the time to figure it out now)


    How did all men from Adam to Christ for 5200 years obtain grace and justice? They received forgiveness through an Act of Contrition, or perfect love of God above all things, along with the explicit desire to do all the things He had commanded. There are countless examples of this in Sacred Scripture right from King David's tears of contrition, St. Mary Magdalene weeping at the feet of Christ (and the Lord says, her sins, which are many, are forgiven), St. Peter weeping after his denial etc even before Cornelius the Centurion received the Holy Spirit before his Baptism - a clear reference to Baptism by Desire of the Sacrament. Wherefore I say to thee: Many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much. But to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less. (Luk 7:47)


    . . .

    Yes, Xavier, but the Council of Trent in its Session VI on justification says this:

    Quote
    CHAPTER IV.

    A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.

    By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And
    this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

    Does this not directly and clearly say that something has changed "since the promulgation of the Gospel" as to the manner of justification? It sure does. It says that now, in the age of the Catholic Church and the full revelation and promulgation by Her of the Gospel of Our Lord, justification "cannot be effected" without the sacrament, or the desire for it. The sacrament of baptism is now necessary for justification either in re or in votum. Your men "from Adam to Christ" were justified before the promulgation of the Gospel, not "since."

    God changed the game my friend, and now there is no salvation outside the Church, or at least without an explicit desire for the sacrament - without which justification "cannot be effected." I understand that the latter part - the necessity of an explicit desire, is my theological opinion. But it fits with the language of the Council, Session VI, Chapter IV, and I've never heard anyone deal with this language in Trent adequately so as to explain how the justification before Christ of the men "from Adam to Christ for 5200" years - via contrition and an act of love and desire to do God's will, an "implicit" desire for baptism - can avail now after the Gospel's promulgation when Trent says things have now changed.

    What changed since the promulgation of the Gospel such that now it "cannot be effected" without the sacrament of baptism or the desire "thereof"?

    Perhaps you can explain that where others haven't.
    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Offline XavierSem

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    Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
    « Reply #59 on: March 16, 2019, 08:29:52 AM »
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  • Hi DecemRationis. Quick reply. Yes, I agree as far as I understood. After the promulgation of the Gospel, things changed because we now need explicit Catholic Faith in at least the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation of the Word/Son of God for salvation, as the Creed of St. Athanasius teaches us, for salvation; it is possible God may also give Baptism itself to all He has justified by BOD. Have to run now. 

    Even the ancient OT patriarchs were all waiting for redemption only through Christ, and had to believe in Him to go to Heaven.

    God bless. Will get back later.
    Do make Acts of Consecration to the Twin Hearts, Spiritual Offerings of the Precious Blood of Jesus in Union with the Holy Mass, like in St. Gertrude's Chaplet, along with Spiritual Communions at least every hour. The Saints say Spiritual Communions are a way to quickly advance to Union with God.

     

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