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Author Topic: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?  (Read 16808 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 08:52:51 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on March 15, 2019, 08:35:32 AM
Stubborn, you're only agreeing because Xavier is misinterpreting the citation from St. Augustine.  He takes it as evidence in SUPPORT of Baptism of Desire, rather than the opposite ... which is exactly what it is.
I thought he was saying that the Church's idea of a BOD is that of Fr. Feeney's, namely, that God will supply the sacrament of  Baptism to those who desire it. That's what I was agreeing with.
 

BTW Xavier, your quite from Fr. Feeney is originally from his book, The Bread of Life, although he may have repeated it numerous times even before his death.
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Offline Last Tradhican

Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 11:00:17 AM »
In 25 years of dealing with this subject of BOD, I have never once met a defender of BOD that did not stretch it to include salvation for all good people in all religions outside of the Church. It is called salvation by belief in a God that rewards, implicit faith for short. What is most surprising is that even the anti-Vatican II traditionalist priestly groups, both sedevacantes and SSPX, both teach their seminarians that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards (that is: people who do not want to be Catholic, don not want to be baptized, do not even believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, that those people can be saved), and yet they reject Vatican II when it teaches the same thing as clear as day.

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2019, 12:51:08 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on March 15, 2019, 08:52:51 AM
I thought he was saying that the Church's idea of a BOD is that of Fr. Feeney's, namely, that God will supply the sacrament of  Baptism to those who desire it. That's what I was agreeing with.
 

BTW Xavier, your quite from Fr. Feeney is originally from his book, The Bread of Life, although he may have repeated it numerous times even before his death.

Xavier was using the St. Augustine quotation as evidence in FAVOR of BoD, rather than against it ... which is the opposite of St. Augustine's meaning.  And his misapplication of the quote is predicated on the imposition of "impossibility" on God and Divine Providence.

See, the BODers respond that Feeneyism makes God bound by the Sacraments, whereas the real truth is that BoDers bind God with "impossibility".  We in fact say that God binds US with the Sacraments, not that He is bound BY them, and that He is perfectly capable of getting the Sacrament to His elect, as St. Augustine points out.
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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 01:09:27 PM »
Quote
Are you sure Father Wathen is talking of the Catechism of Trent and not the Baltimore Catechism? If so, what authority does he give for that other than the assertion?
Pretty sure Fr Wathen was talking about the Baltimore Catechism because i've heard that it was corrupted from the original edition.
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Offline ihsv

Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2019, 01:13:46 PM »
Indeed.  It is as easy for God to get water to even the most "impossible" of cases as it is for Him to create a thousand universes.  

St. Thomas Aquinas says that the providence of God governs the world and all things as if YOU were the only one in it.  Each one of us has His undivided attention.  And he does this for each and every individual.

And He is more interested in our spiritual well-being and salvation than we are.

"Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they?"
[Matthew 6:26]
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