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Author Topic: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?  (Read 16786 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2019, 04:33:30 PM »
I may need to correct/retract this but off the top of my head I can't remember. Please give me some time to read it again.
Thank you.
Sure, Joe. Thanks for checking. 

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2019, 04:38:19 PM »
Wait.  Not so fast.

St. Fulgentius

Quote
Quote
But God desired that his confession should avail for his salvation, since he preserved him in this life until the time of his holy regeneration.

It's not unlikely that Trent had this teaching in mind with that Catechism passage.

Except the Roman Catechism lacks the "since" and what follows.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2019, 05:29:06 PM »
Stubborn,

Brother Andre Marie had an episode on BOD on his Reconquest Radio show, Episode 109. He cites several good articles in his discussion, including Raymond Karem's original Reply to a Liberal Part III, also posted on catholicisim.org - https://veritasradionetwork.com/reconquest-episode-109-catholic-considerations-on-baptism-of-desire/

You know the history of this and the importance of Karam's article in From the Housetops. In the article Karam says this:

Are you saying Brother Andre, or more broadly the SBC, disagrees with that?

I say they do not : de jure it could [Karam, "can be sufficient"] SAVE, but de facto it doesn't happen.

DR
I wondered if the SBC, or one/some of their groups who went under conciliar church rule, were going to fold. Brother Andre and whoever is with him on this, is on their own. By that I mean they should disavow Fr. Feeney as their founder and go create their own community somewhere else and call it something else - iow, be outwardly, upfront honest.

The most obvious of all possible points *against* using Trent's Catechism to prove Trent taught a BOD, is that it says "grace and righteousness", which can only apply to the living, whereas "salvation" can only apply to the dead, this should be obvious to all who read that passage honestly from the catechism.

Obviously one can only attain salvation after death. Until death, i.e. whilst we live, we all strive to be in the state of grace and righteousness, which are attributes of the living, and also especially the dying, but definitely not the dead.

Know what I mean?

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2019, 05:39:54 PM »
I wondered if the SBC, or one/some of their groups who went under conciliar church rule, were going to fold. Brother Andre and whoever is with him on this, is on their own. By that I mean they should disavow Fr. Feeney as their founder and go create their own community somewhere else and call it something else - iow, be outwardly, upfront honest.


Stubborn,

For agreeing with Karam? Fr. Feeney said he agreed with Karam.

DR

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2019, 05:43:33 PM »
The most obvious of all possible points *against* using Trent's Catechism to prove Trent taught a BOD, is that it says "grace and righteousness", which can only apply to the living, whereas "salvation" can only apply to the dead, this should be obvious to all who read that passage honestly from the catechism.

Obviously one can only attain salvation after death. Until death, i.e. whilst we live, we all strive to be in the state of grace and righteousness, which are attributes of the living, and also especially the dying, but definitely not the dead.

Know what I mean?

What about the women to whom Jesus said, "your faith hath saved you." She was quite alive.