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Author Topic: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?  (Read 16803 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »
In 25 years of dealing with this subject of BOD, I have never once met a defender of BOD that did not stretch it to include salvation for all good people in all religions outside of the Church. It is called salvation by belief in a God that rewards, implicit faith for short. What is most surprising is that even the anti-Vatican II traditionalist priestly groups, both sedevacantes and SSPX, both teach their seminarians that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards (that is: people who do not want to be Catholic, don not want to be baptized, do not even believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation, that those people can be saved), and yet they reject Vatican II when it teaches the same thing as clear as day.
You mean "met" as in face to face or in person I presume. Because there are those around here who I'm sure you have encountered that recognize BOD without stretching it "to include salvation for all good people in all religions outside of the Church." I am one; off the top of my head, I believe Nishant would be one also. There are others.  

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2019, 01:15:52 PM »
Pretty sure Fr Wathen was talking about the Baltimore Catechism because i've heard that it was corrupted from the original edition.
I think so too, but I don't know the quote so I can't say. 


Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2019, 01:21:26 PM »
Xavier was using the St. Augustine quotation as evidence in FAVOR of BoD, rather than against it ... which is the opposite of St. Augustine's meaning.  And his misapplication of the quote is predicated on the imposition of "impossibility" on God and Divine Providence.
Ahh, I see that now.
That's pretty screwed up.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2019, 01:25:55 PM »
Joe,

Are you sure Father Wathen is talking of the Catechism of Trent and not the Baltimore Catechism? If so, what authority does he give for that other than the assertion?
All anyone has to do is read Trent's Catechism as it is written, a BOD is not even hinted in it anywhere.

ETA: Fr. Wathen quoted the Council of Trent for sure - I don't know if he quoted Trent's Catechism or not.

Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2019, 03:01:01 PM »
I believe Xavier is referring to the position of the SBC as being that God will provide the sacrament to all of His elect, to all the saved. I think that indeed is the SBC position. I believe the SBC recognizes that someone could be justified by desire and if they died before receipt of the sacrament in that justified state they would be saved, BUT THAT'S A HYPOTHETICAL AND NEVER HAPPENS.

Thus, the SBC agrees with the Roman Catechism that "should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness." The SBC then adds, "but there ain't no should." :)

Xavier says this is the position of St. Augustine (we can at least say he joins St. Thomas in citing St. Augustine as recognizing BOD), and Xavier then closes as to the position of St. Augustine/the SBC: "St. Augustine's view is excellent, very probably true, and eminently defensible."

Good for him.