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Author Topic: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?  (Read 16795 times)

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St. Augustine both taught BOD and also said, "Perish the thought that a person predestined to eternal life could be allowed to end this life without the Sacrament of the Mediator."..Saint Augustine taught, as is clear from this article’s epigram, that the providence of God would see to it that a justified catechumen would be baptized before death. God alone, in any event, knows which of those, with a votum for baptism and perfect contrition, He has justified. The Church can only assume, as the arm of Christ, the Principal Agent in baptism, that all are in need of receiving the sacramentin order to not only have all sin forgiven and abolished, but to be a member of the Church, the Body of Christ. Anticipating the rejoinder that no one is lost who dies in the state of grace, let me just affirm that I agree. Not only that I agree, but that I submit to this truth as I would a dogma of Faith. The Church, however, allows the faithful the freedom to believe that the providence of God will see to it that every person dying in the state of grace will also be baptized. This preserves the literal sense of Christ’s teaching in John 3:5: “Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” and His apostolic mandate to preach and baptize all nations in Mark 16: 15-16." https://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html

If one rejects or criticizes the doctrines of Baptism of Desire and Blood, one has to first of all absurdly try to argue against Catechisms approved and authorized by the most traditional Popes, like Pope St. Pius V in the Roman Catechism of Trent, and Pope St. Pius X - this in fact the Dimonds and their disciples attempt, which is a manifest absurdity and almost a logical consequence of their heretical position. Richard Ibranyi taking their own heretical methodology further than them has, at last count, rejected something like all the Popes for the last millenium, showing how schismatic and heretical the sedevacantist Dimondist methodology really is. If one proceeds like that, one loses Faith and Charity by that means, the two Bonds that Unite us in the Mystical Body of Christ, and falls into open schism and even heresy.

But St. Augustine's view is excellent, very probably true, and eminently defensible: if we recall Fr. Feeney near the end of his life stated, "there is no one about to die in the state of grace to whom God cannot provide Baptism, and indeed Baptism of Water", it is clear these are not the words of a man who denies Church teaching on Baptism of Desire, but believes God will supply Baptism of Water to those who have been praying and working to receive the graces both of justification and perseverance from Him. Do you agree with him? I do.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 05:26:25 AM »
But St. Augustine's view is excellent, very probably true, and eminently defensible: if we recall Fr. Feeney near the end of his life stated, "there is no one about to die in the state of grace to whom God cannot provide Baptism, and indeed Baptism of Water", it is clear these are not the words of a man who denies Church teaching on Baptism of Desire, but believes God will supply Baptism of Water to those who have been praying and working to receive the graces both of justification and perseverance from Him. Do you agree with him? I do.
Yes, I agree.

I believe a BOD, which is a man made doctrine that teaches a good intention by an infidel, brought on by an unforeseen accident, is salvific, is a terrible insult to the Providence of an all knowing and all mighty God. 


Offline JoeZ

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 06:39:50 PM »
If I may,
I honestly don't know the Center's position well enough to approve and you didn't provide enough of it to even comment on, but I do object to this thought of yours.
 The Church, however, allows the faithful the freedom to believe that the providence of God will see to it that every person dying in the state of grace will also be baptized. 
How does one arrive at the state of grace before baptism? Through a sacrament?

The Council of Trent infallibly teaches that the only remedy for Original Sin is “the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath reconciled us to God in his own blood, made us unto justice, sanctification, and redemption” and that “the merit of Jesus Christ is applied…by the sacrament of baptism rightly administered in the form of the church.” 

What form of the Church is used in BOD?   
Who is the minister?
Do you know what Palagianism is?

Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 10:07:53 PM »

I was born on June 28, 1951 at Seattle’s Providence Hospital, founded by Mother Joseph of the Sisters of Providence.  The original edifice, designed by her, was built in 1882 but replaced after 1911.  I was baptized at Seattle’s St. Joseph’s parish on July 29, 1951 by Father Xavier Ryan, SJ.  In 1955 my family moved from Seattle to establish a family farm from virgin land in Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Columbia Basin Project … we still have the farm but the land is leased out; My 97 year old mother still lives here in her house and for the past two years I’ve kept bachelor quarters in the basement to be nearby and help care for her.  I received my First Confession and First Holy Communion in May of 1959 at St. Patrick’s in Pasco, WA from Father William Schmidt.  I was confirmed by Bishop Bernard Topel of the Diocese of Spokane (WA) on May 4, 1964 at St. Patrick’s.

During all of this my catechesis and formation in the True Faith was from the Baltimore Catechism, as was true for virtually all U.S. Catholics from 1885 until the post VII tumult of the late 1960’s.  My understanding is that it is based on St. Robert Bellarmine’s Small Catechism of 1614.  The Baltimore Catechism does now and has always carried an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat from the Church’s magisterial authority.  It clearly teaches Baptism of Water, Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire (not to mention the three elements required for a Mortal Sin, a term all too often tossed around very loosely).

I’ll stick with the Baltimore Catechism.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Do you agree with St. Benedict's Centre on both BOD and EENS?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2019, 05:15:44 AM »
During all of this my catechesis and formation in the True Faith was from the Baltimore Catechism, as was true for virtually all U.S. Catholics from 1885 until the post VII tumult of the late 1960’s.  My understanding is that it is based on St. Robert Bellarmine’s Small Catechism of 1614.  The Baltimore Catechism does now and has always carried an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat from the Church’s magisterial authority.  It clearly teaches Baptism of Water, Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire (not to mention the three elements required for a Mortal Sin, a term all too often tossed around very loosely).

I’ll stick with the Baltimore Catechism.

The Baltimore Catechism is indeed where nearly everyone learned their faith, that is, since the time of it's publication up till V2. However, prior to then, people learned the truths of the faith without it. Just something to always keep in mind.

St. Paul in Scripture is quite explicit when he taught quite specifically that there is only one baptism, not three, which is what people learned up until the Baltimore Catechism. Just something else to always keep in mind.

Our faith teaches us that no man can save himself, that every human creature that has ever lived and ever will live, is wholly dependent upon God (and His Holy Church) to provide for each of us individually the means of salvation, without which no man can be saved. A BOD, whatever it is, can only work without Divine Providence, God's Providence as got to be altogether void or missing from it's formula in order for the possibility of a BOD to work. 

The protestants believe they obtain forgiveness by confessing their sins directly to God, which is contrary to what the Church teaches. A BOD is protestant in nature, is contrary to Scripture, contrary to the constant teaching of the Church and it wholly rejects God's Providence, Who, since the promulgation of the Gospel, has provided the time, the minister and the water for everyone who ever has been and ever will be baptized.

Before the Baltimore Catechism, St. Paul said: "One Lord, one faith, one baptism."

How many baptisms are there?