Author Topic: Direct Question for "bowler" (Read 7643 times)

bowler · « **Reply #30 on:** May 17, 2013, 08:17:25 AM »

Quote from: saintbosco13

Quote from: gooch
I asked my sspx priest if it was possible a non catholic , like a jew, greek orthodox can be saved, he said it's possible, is this what all sspx people believe? how can you be a rue catholic and believe this nonsense?

This priest was wrong. One must belong to the Catholic Church in some way, at the very least by implicit desire, in order to obtain salvation.

You believe a person can be saved who does not want to be baptized, or be a Catholic, or be a martyr for the Faith, and does not believe in the Trinity and Christ. You swallowed the camel already, that that "person somehow belongs to the Church" (Although he wants nothing to do with it and Christ!).

MyrnaM · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2013, 08:30:19 AM »

Many people are confused because with the human eye it may look as if a dying person was not united to the True church. Example: Someone who is a known Protestant, or even atheist, or anywhere in-between. Now they lay dying somewhere, their last breath minutes away.

God for some unknown reason to us, allows this person the grace to accept the Holy Catholic Faith, for even angels can administer Sacraments, as in the angel of Portugal. We do not know what is happening in the soul of others, no matter what these people who deny God's mercy believe.

I am not saying this happens to every dying soul, but God knows who most deserves His mercy. This is why the Church has always taught not to judge anyone. We can not!

This SSPX priest may have meant that to another human being a particular soul may have appeared to be outside the Church, but in God's eye the soul was UNITED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

You people who deny Baptism of Desire are totally WRONG!

You limit God in what He can do.

You judge people.

You deny His Mercy!

You put yourself in God's place.

You steer other people in the wrong direction, by instilling doubt in the mercy of God.

You destroy Hope.

Our Lady said, "most souls go to Hell because they have no one to pray for them" which clearly means if you pray for others God will allow His merciful grace, and He knows the time, the perfect time to infuse His grace into the soul of all of us.

Clancularius · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2013, 09:11:10 AM »

Quote from: Stubborn

You make no sense. Why not demonstrate that you are sincere by replying to the clear questions I asked with clear answers instead of inventing a false conclusion to your own ambiguous fantasy questions?

You say it makes no sense, and don't explain anything. Nice way of changing the subject.

Your rephrased question about can the Church rescind doctrinal decrees is a question that changes the subject. The obvious answer to your question is "no". I have answered all your questions.

Feeneyites see bad will and insincerity everywhere, unlike Our Lord and the Saints. I have conceded that your replacing my question with your own dogma was sufficient, and where I humbly concede, you accuse of insincerity. Really warped.

Stubborn, you answered "no" to the original question of this topic thread. You thereby agreed it was IMPOSSIBLE for the Church to define a dogma, and then later approve of catechisms for the laity and books for her clergy to learn from which calls into doubt that previously dogma AND for nobody in the Church to notice for hundreds of years. You said that was impossible.

Then you changed your answer to "yes" when you thought about the character of the Vatican II papal claimaints. This means either you don't think they are true popes after Vatican II, or you changed your original answer to "yes". Which is it?

Elizabeth · « **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2013, 09:13:35 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

You destroy Hope.

Our Lady said, "most souls go to Hell because they have no one to pray for them" which clearly means if you pray for others God will allow His merciful grace, and He knows the time, the perfect time to infuse His grace into the soul of all of us.

Great post, Myrna.

bowler · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2013, 12:02:27 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Many people are confused because with the human eye it may look as if a dying person was not united to the True church. Example: Someone who is a known Protestant, or even atheist, or anywhere in-between. Now they lay dying somewhere, their last breath minutes away.

God for some unknown reason to us, allows this person the grace to accept the Holy Catholic Faith, for even angels can administer Sacraments, as in the angel of Portugal. We do not know what is happening in the soul of others, no matter what these people who deny God's mercy believe.

I am not saying this happens to every dying soul, but God knows who most deserves His mercy. This is why the Church has always taught not to judge anyone. We can not!

This SSPX priest may have meant that to another human being a particular soul may have appeared to be outside the Church, but in God's eye the soul was UNITED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

You people who deny Baptism of Desire are totally WRONG!

You limit God in what He can do.

You judge people.

You deny His Mercy!

You put yourself in God's place.

You steer other people in the wrong direction, by instilling doubt in the mercy of God.

You destroy Hope.

Our Lady said, "most souls go to Hell because they have no one to pray for them" which clearly means if you pray for others God will allow His merciful grace, and He knows the time, the perfect time to infuse His grace into the soul of all of us.

That was a totally Novus Ordo feelings oriented personal response with no basis in any tradition.

Speaking like that to a non-Catholic will do more harm than what you falsely accuse me of. Non-Catholics wiil die uncoverted because feelings oriented Novus Ordo people like you told them that they could save themselves. It is akin to what we hear all the time today when people are in their death bed, Oh, don't call the priest it'll scare her to death.

If a person dies with no desire to be baptized, nor a desire to be a Catholic, nor as a martyr for the true Faith, with no belief in or desire to believe in Christ and the Trinity, they are lost.

Catholics when interrogated, must answer that the Church preaches that all those who die outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and without a doubt shall perish into the everlasting fire (Words from a dogmatic decree on EENS. This is the Holy Ghost speaking!)
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The Sacred Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith, under Blessed Pius X, in 1907, in answer to a question as to whether Confucius could have been saved, wrote:

“It is not allowed to affirm that Confucius was saved. Christians, when interrogated, must answer that those who die as infidels are damned”.