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Author Topic: Denying BOD is a mortal sin  (Read 2192 times)

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Denying BOD is a mortal sin
« on: April 25, 2026, 12:47:34 PM »
So I did some research on the topic.

I present the summary findings in this simple table. 

Because many feenyites seem like simple people. 





If you want citations and sources for all this, I am happy to give them. Always open to honest, non autistic, discussion.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: St. Alphonsus Denying a BOD
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2026, 12:58:27 PM »
St. Alphonsus Denying a BOD.....

From:  (An Exposition and Defence of All the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent, Along With the Refutation of the Errors of the Pretended Reformers, Saint Alphonsus Liguori, Dublin, 1846.)

The Council of Trent, Session Seven, Sacraments in General, Canon 4 states:

Quote
Quote
CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema.
St. Alphonsus:

"The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching.  But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons:  for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary (necessitate Medii) as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire (in voto)."



Re: St. Alphonsus Denying a BOD
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2026, 01:28:31 PM »
St. Alphonsus Denying a BOD.....

From:  (An Exposition and Defence of All the Points of Faith Discussed and Defined by the Sacred Council of Trent, Along With the Refutation of the Errors of the Pretended Reformers, Saint Alphonsus Liguori, Dublin, 1846.)

The Council of Trent, Session Seven, Sacraments in General, Canon 4 states:

QuoteSt. Alphonsus:

"The heretics say that no sacrament is necessary, inasmuch as they hold that man is justified by faith alone, and that the sacraments only serve to excite and nourish this faith, which (as they say) can be equally excited and nourished by preaching.  But this is certainly false, and is condemned in the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth canons:  for as we know from the Scriptures, some of the sacraments are necessary (necessitate Medii) as a means without which salvation is impossible. Thus Baptism is necessary for all, Penance for them who have fallen into sin after Baptism, and the Eucharist is necessary for all at least in desire (in voto)."
Right after that paragraph, this is what the saint says:




"The first rule for interpreting an author's texts is not to interpret them in such a way as to make him contradict himself."


⁃ Fr. Garrigou Lagrange, O.P, "Our Saviour and His Love for Us", p. 44, 1951

God accepts the will for the deed when the deed is impossible. This is one of the most basic principles of the spiritual life. It applies to both sin and virtue.

Remember that baptism is not an article of belief like the divinity of Christ is. It is a law, and the water may be dispensed with in case of necessity. As I have said before, baptism of desire is a participation in the sacrament, which is the teaching of St. Thomas and the only way to reconcile what the Council of Trent taught, what it's own Catechism taught, and what everyone post-Trent taught.



Re: Denying BOD is a mortal sin
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2026, 01:41:50 PM »
The internet has caused a lot of general confusion, but it has especially contributed to many theological misunderstandings, since many texts are accessible which previously would only have been given to those under the direction of a properly trained and informed cleric.

Clergy are not only usually properly educated, they are also given the grace to understand truths of the Faith with greater clarity than laity, simply on account of their vocations to the priesthood and episcopate, which involves the duty to guide the faithful.

It is a simple fact that Catholics all over the world were taught baptism of desire and of blood in their Catechisms. Like pious, obedient children, they did not presume to scrutinize the texts of Councils, which is part of Tradition, and not to be read leisurely by the faithful. Like pious, obedient children, they listened to their Bishops, the latter of whom constitute the teaching Church, the former constitute the hearing Church.

Having read some Catholic Church history, I have found that it was always the approach of the Church for the Bishops to either write pastoral letters, or give informative sermons on what the Church's definitions were at recent Councils, and expounded upon them in order to give their people proper instruction. This is part of the hierarchical structure that Our Lord established.

The problem of not relying on Bishops, and laymen taking theological matters into their own hands as if equal with the clergy, came about because of a misunderstanding of papal infallibility after it was defined in 1870. When that was promulgated, many people thought that unless something was defined ex cathedra or in a Council, what the Pope or Bishops taught did not matter.

Catechisms being all laity had access to before, we would have to assert that for centuries, the faithful adhered to heresy, and a heresy that is central to one's basic understanding of salvation.

As if the doctors of the Church and clergy never had a sufficient understanding of baptism and the Council of Florence! This whole thing is absurd.

Please show me anywhere in Church history that clergy were not only permitted but praised for teaching an erroneous interpretation of a Council, AFTER the Council, because this is what the logical conclusion is if we want to say all the saints, doctors, clergy post-Trent were just WRONG.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: St. Alphonsus Denying a BOD
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2026, 01:42:09 PM »
Right after that paragraph, this is what the saint says:




"The first rule for interpreting an author's texts is not to interpret them in such a way as to make him contradict himself."


⁃ Fr. Garrigou Lagrange, O.P, "Our Saviour and His Love for Us", p. 44, 1951

God accepts the will for the deed when the deed is impossible. This is one of the most basic principles of the spiritual life. It applies to both sin and virtue.

Remember that baptism is not an article of belief like the divinity of Christ is. It is a law, and the water may be dispensed with in case of necessity. As I have said before, baptism of desire is a participation in the sacrament, which is the teaching of St. Thomas and the only way to reconcile what the Council of Trent taught, what it's own Catechism taught, and what everyone post-Trent taught.
So you are saying that although he says "heretics say that no sacrament is necessary" and "baptism is necessary for all," you choose to ignore those clear words in order to believe him when he says essentially that the desire suffices. Ok, I think most people agree with you, I disagree. I choose to believe what he said first.

Whatever happened to St. Bernard's: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?" Which is exactly what a BOD is, a [presumed] good intention....in the last nano seconds of life.