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Author Topic: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ  (Read 1945 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2017, 07:19:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on July 18, 2017, 11:12:30 AM
       What we have hopefully learned so far is that what saves is sanctifying grace and that non-members of the Church can be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of death.
    No LOE, non-members CANNOT be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death.

    Q. How do we know that non-members cannot be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death?
     
    A. We know that non-members cannot be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death because Pope Boniface VIII defined the dogma that there is no forgiveness of sins outside of the Church, it is therefore impossible for a non-member to be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death. Those who say that non-members can at any time be in the state of sanctifying grace while they are non-members of the Catholic Church, are preaching a different Gospel and are of their own free will, anathema.

    "Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins..." Bull Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII, promulgated November 18, 1302
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 07:20:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 20, 2017, 07:19:21 AM
    No LOE, non-members CANNOT be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death.

    Q. How do we know that non-members cannot be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death?
     
    A. We know that non-members cannot be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death because Pope Boniface VIII defined the dogma that there is no forgiveness of sins outside of the Church, it is therefore impossible for a non-member to be in the state of sanctifying grace at the moment of their death. Those who say that non-members can at any time be in the state of sanctifying grace while they are non-members of the Catholic Church, are preaching a different Gospel and are of their own free will, anathema.

    "Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins..." Bull Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII, promulgated November 18, 1302
    I'm I supposed to read this?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 07:22:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on July 20, 2017, 07:20:15 AM
    I'm I supposed to read this?
    I posted it specifically for everyone who really does love the truth.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 07:24:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 20, 2017, 07:22:27 AM
    I posted it specifically for everyone who really does love the truth.
    That post is the OP.  The lovers of the 20th century non-theologian Feeney will have to settle for that.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #19 on: July 20, 2017, 07:27:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on July 20, 2017, 07:24:13 AM
    That post is the OP.  The lovers of the 20th century non-theologian Feeney will have to settle for that.
    Yet another glaring example of a LOE.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #20 on: July 20, 2017, 07:28:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 20, 2017, 07:27:18 AM
    Yet another glaring example of a LOE.
    That post is the OP.  The lovers of the 20th century non-theologian Feeney will have to settle for that.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #21 on: July 20, 2017, 07:32:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on July 20, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
    That post is the OP.  The lovers of the 20th century non-theologian Feeney will have to settle for that.
    We know the OP is error - you posted it no? What else is new? 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 07:39:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 20, 2017, 07:32:49 AM
    We know the OP is error - you posted it no? What else is new?
    I love how you try to refute the truth.  With babyishness.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #23 on: July 20, 2017, 07:45:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 19, 2017, 02:41:54 PM

    Indeed! :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Ladies and Gentlemen, you have now arrived at SedeSpam Central Station. I would suggest yet another sub-forum to segregate this foolishness but, what good would it do? The Apostles of Ignorance are relentless.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #24 on: July 20, 2017, 07:49:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on July 20, 2017, 07:45:21 AM
    Indeed! :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: Ladies and Gentlemen, you have now arrived at SedeSpam Central Station. I would suggest yet another sub-forum to segregate this foolishness but, what good would it do? The Apostles of Ignorance are relentless.
    Misery loves company.  You love to commiserate with each other.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #25 on: July 20, 2017, 07:51:37 AM »
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    • Additionally we are trying to establish that it is not just any "desire" that puts one "within" the Church but a desire backed by a supernatural faith and perfect charity. Inculpable Ignorance itself neither saves nor damns anyone. A person can desire to go to New York but not do anything about it. "Boy I wish I were in New York. Oh well." Another person could desire to go to New York and do everything he can to get there. "I need to be in New York. What can I do to get there?" He might not know about planes, or where it is located, but he knows he needs to get there and does whatever he can to make it, whether he hitchhikes or asks everyone he passes in the street how to get there, or starts working so he can earn money for a ticket.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #26 on: July 20, 2017, 08:04:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on July 20, 2017, 07:27:18 AM
    Yet another glaring example of a LOE.
    Yes, you can lump Father Feeney in with Our Lord, another non theologian who teaches the necessity of Baptism for salvation.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #27 on: July 20, 2017, 08:09:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on July 20, 2017, 08:04:47 AM
    Yes, you can lump Father Feeney in with Our Lord, another non theologian who teaches the necessity of Baptism for salvation.
    Your conclusion disagrees with those vastly more qualified than you.  These people have made the proper distinction.  They are not idiots that can't interpret scripture.  It takes a bit of humility to accept.  I know.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 08:29:07 AM »
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    • ^^^^Yet another glaring example of a LOE.

    I suppose it's a waste of time to ask again for you to start and champion a thread about the necessity of the sacrament. We're going on 4 years pretty soon since I first asked, and still you cannot get yourself to do it.

    I remember asking this initially around December of 2013 and probably 30 times since then - always ignored by you and the other anti-sacramentists, thus, to date, proving with absolute certainty that you positively despise the sacrament. Why is it that you, the hypocrite, who has had water poured over your head, don't already admit that the sacrament is totally unnecessary?


    In January 2014, I asked again in this post:

    I am of the opinion that you and the other BODers will remain obstinately attached to your error for as long as you continue with your lex orandi, which is to mock and despise the necessity of the sacraments and the Church for the hope of salvation. As long as you keep repeating the same error, the error will remain the way you believe, the error is your lex credendi.

    NOTE:
    If you do not believe me, if you think I'm wrong, if you want to get it off your chest and really prove and expose to everyone exactly how ignorant of a person I really am, then please prove me completely wrong by starting and participating in a thread in which you do the strictly Catholic thing and actually defend the necessity of the sacraments for the hope of salvation.

    I maintain that you, SJB or Ambrose or any BODer who clings to the belief that salvation without the sacrament is possible, will be both unwilling and unable to get themselves to even think of doing such a thing much less actually do it - it is not just *not* a part of a BODers lex credendi, doing such a thing is actually opposed to a BODers lex credendi.

    This is the easiest way I can think of for you and other BODers to discover for yourselves and on your own that you cannot do the Catholic and outwardly defend, that which you inwardly deeply despise.

    I've asked this of BODers 5 or 6 times now and so far, not even one of them has even acknowledged the challenge, but new threads trivializing the necessity of the sacraments are started by a BODers regularly.

    It is just not a part of a BODer's lex credendi to do the Catholic thing and defend the necessity of the sacraments for the hope of salvation.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Definitive Definitions of the Mystical Body of Christ
    « Reply #29 on: July 20, 2017, 08:30:22 AM »
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    •     So too, a man can desire to be in the Church, or desire to do whatever is necessary to be saved yet do nothing about it. While another can have the same desire and back up that desire by trying to the best of his ability to do what he believes is God's will. Avoiding sin to the best of his ability, studying scripture and trying to learn which Church Jesus found and where that Church is today. Such a person will not avoid "inconvenient" truths for fear that he will have to change his sinful lifestyle. Such a person only wants truth and will conform to God's will as he learns what it is, no matter how difficult this may be for him. God judges the heart, He knows our efforts, sincerity and whether we purposely engage in acts we believe to be against His will without repenting or not.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church
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