Quote from: McCork

Quote from: Stubborn

John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Quote from: McCork

Quote from: ihsv

Can a man enter the Kingdom of God without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost?

Don't pretend as if your question is not based directly on Scripture.

It is obvious from my messages that the answer to your question is "yes".

This is one heck of a hallucination.

I think it is rather that you haven't seen the explanation yet.

For a Catholic, the meaning of Holy Scripture is what the Church says it means.

For Protestants, the meaning of Holy Scripture is what the individual thinks it mean regardless of the Church says it means.

The Church has told us what Jesus meant in John 3:5.

Ihssv asked me his own question with an intention and meaning of his own. I know what his intent was, and I answered accordingly with the emphasis on the word "your".

Both you and ihsv, and most Feeneyites, are handling that Scripture like Protestants....private interpretation while disregarding what the Church says it means. Even Ladislaus seems to believe that catechumens can be saved without being physically baptized with water, if they die by accident before the ceremony. Anyway, canon law officially recognizes this. Is canon law heretical?

Our Lord said without water and the Holy Ghost, no one gets to heaven.
The Church interprets John 3:5 as Trent decrees, " as it is written"; "from these words, prove the necessity of giving baptism to infants: and by Christ's adding water, is excluded a metaphorical baptism." (FYI, a BOD = "metaphorical baptism")
Trent decrees the sacrament is necessary unto salvation.
Trent decrees the sacrament is not optional.

McCork says they are all wrong, that Fr. Feeney is wrong, that I am wrong, that God Himself is wrong because; "yes", certainly a man enter the Kingdom of God without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost."

You've got the millstone securely around your neck, beware of jumping in a lake.

Now you have a book, you say, that agrees with you - which is as I said already - you exist on this site to pit teaching against teaching - you do this by twisting the true teachings and promoting false teachings.

Same o same o.

"canon law officially recognizes this. Is canon law heretical?"

Bottom Line:

BODers - believe that some Moslems, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Bhuddists, Hindus, ect. can be saved.

Feeneyites – Do not believe that any Moslems, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Bhuddists, Hindus, ect can be saved.

Again, the fallacy here is an "Oversimplification" of the topic, a very "Hasty Generalization".

The truth of the matter is clearly taught by the Church:

 174. "It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, lands, native talents, and so many other factors? Only when we have been released from the bonds of this body and see God just as He is (see John 3:2) shall we really understand how close and beautiful a bond joins Divine mercy with Divine justice."

 "...We all know that those who are afflicted with invincible ignorance with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law that have been written by God in the hearts of men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace."

Quote from: Stubborn

Now you have a book, you say, that agrees with you - which is as I said already - you exist on this site to pit teaching against teaching - you do this by twisting the true teachings and promoting false teachings.

Same o same o.

"canon law officially recognizes this. Is canon law heretical?"

Why do you care what canon law says? - you who explicitly reject the words of Our Lord. You exist on this site to pit teaching against teaching.

Quote from: ihsv

Can a man enter the Kingdom of God without being born again of water and the Holy Ghost?

Don't pretend as if your question is not based directly on Scripture.

It is obvious from my messages that the answer to your question is "yes".

 

As long as you have the infallible teaching of Trent and the infallible words of Our Lord, BOTH teaching infallibility, (that means without the slightest possibility of error, which means those words are binding on all Catholics under pain of Mortal Sin) that without the sacrament, no one will enter heaven - whatever anything or anyone says that does not agree 100%, is either erroneous or irrelevant.

True or false means nothing to you, all you do is keep searching till you find something fallible which suits your opinion, then you push the fallible teaching as the truth, while proclaiming the infallible teaching does not mean what it says - and whoever binds themselves to the infallible teachings are in error or are heretics. You then pit fallible teaching against infallible teaching - as if that changes the infallible teachings. What Church taught you to do this?

I am positive you can cease doing this if you give it your best effort to accept the infallible words of Our Lord and the infallible decrees of Trent as they are written from now on.

   

As long as you have the infallible teaching of Trent and the infallible words of Our Lord, BOTH teaching infallibility, (that means without the slightest possibility of error, which means those words are binding on all Catholics under pain of Mortal Sin) that without the sacrament, no one will enter heaven - whatever anything or anyone says that does not agree 100%, is either erroneous or irrelevant.

True or false means nothing to you, all you do is keep searching till you find something fallible which suits your opinion, then you push the fallible teaching as the truth, while proclaiming the infallible teaching does not mean what it says - and whoever binds themselves to the infallible teachings are in error or are heretics. You then pit fallible teaching against infallible teaching - as if that changes the infallible teachings. What Church taught you to do this?

I am positive you can cease doing this if you give it your best effort to accept the infallible words of Our Lord and the infallible decrees of Trent as they are written from now on.

   

I have long known what you believe. I am asking you a question so that you can apply what you believe.

Preview of 2017 model of:

BODer vs. Feeneyite Debate in Short (as I read it on cathinfo)


BODers - believes that a “good” Jew as a Jew, Muslim as a Muslim, Eastern Orthodox as an Eastern Orthodox, Protestant as a Protestant, Hindu as a Hindu, Buddhist as a Buddhist etc., etc., etc., can be in the state of grace, temple of the Holy Ghost, member of the Church and obtain salvation.

Feeneyites – Do not believe that Jew as a Jew, Muslim as a Muslim, Eastern Orthodox as an Eastern Orthodox, Protestant as a Protestant, Hindu as a Hindu, Buddhist as a Buddhist etc., etc., etc., can be in the state of grace, temple of the Holy Ghost, member of the Church and obtain salvation.

Just for the record, BODers believe that since Jesus Christ died for ALL Mankind, it is possible through the grace of God, that any person can convert at their last moment to the One Holy Catholic Faith, be it unknown to man, but known to God.  Therefore placing them when they stand before God in His favor.

How many, how few, no one really knows, it is God who knows and I realize it is difficult for people who put Feeneyites above the Mercy of God to understand this point, it is never the less a point to consider.

Strange too, how many who hold to erroneous beliefs of EENS, will still regard Francis as a true pope when he is the worse offender of the abuse of EENS.  This alone proves how twisted their thinking is.  Not saying you Last Tradhican are guilty of claiming whatever about Francis since I have not read enough here of what you believe or do not believe about the Conciliar "popes" if they are Catholic or not.