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Author Topic: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD  (Read 21112 times)

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Online WorldsAway

Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2025, 04:17:27 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2025, 03:40:38 PM
That last paragraph is important.  Now one criticism the anti-BoDers get is that we deny God's will to save all people, and that everyone must have the active concrete opportunity to be saved.  So I always ask about the unbaptized infants.  What about them?  I always get crickets in reponse.  Then I explain as you did that God's Mercy made it so they ended up in a place of perfect happiness because foresaw that if they had received the gift of faith they would have been damned and would suffer forever in Hell.
This seems like the most reasonable answer to the salvific will/unbaptized infant dilemma but it still raises the question of why  God did not allow the infant to be baptised before it died (at least in the cases where the parents would have baptised the child had it lived).
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2025, 04:20:46 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on February 19, 2025, 04:17:27 PM
This seems like the most reasonable answer to the salvific will/unbaptized infant dilemma but it still raises the question of why  God did not allow the infant to be baptised before it died (at least in the cases where the parents would have baptised the child had it lived).
Because salvation is a gift, no one deserves it. And humans have free will, these people murder their own unborn children, since that is their will God allows it and does mercy by allowing the unbaptised infant into limbo. Had the child lived and grown up they would have gone to hell. And if you ask why not baptised without growing up? We look at it in reverse, the fact that they are in limbo means they weren't among the elect so think of the implications.
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2025, 04:26:20 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2025, 04:05:02 PM
Check the post you're referencing here again, bud.  That's what.  You'll notice that I was NOT responding to you but to QABrownson1876's comments.  He was describing Orestes Brownson's position, to which I threw in my own observations.  Despite your ego believing that I was responding to you, I didn't even read what you wrote, because quite honestly I don't care about your opinion.


That's not entirely convincing, since the first line of your response is:

Quote
So what if Brownson believed in an explicit Baptism of Desire?

OA's quote wasn't concerned with BoD, while mine was, and indicated OB's view as to "explicit Baptism of Desire." 

But technically you were responding to OA's response containing my quote of OB on "explicit baptism of desire." Got it. 

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Online WorldsAway

Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2025, 05:27:11 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on February 19, 2025, 04:20:46 PM
Because salvation is a gift, no one deserves it.
Yeah it really boils down to that. I was thinking more along the lines of a Catholic family where the mother has a miscarriage, but that is a good point about starting at the end..ultimately they did not merit salvation, so them dying an unbaptised infant must be the "best case" scenario. 
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Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Council of Florence: a final nail in the coffin of BoD
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2025, 10:25:45 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2025, 03:59:13 PM


It's for that reason that I hold there to be a huge surge in abortions, with 73 million per year worldwide, every year now for many decades.  We're approaching quickly a billion aborted infants ... and they will all enjoy perfect natural happiness forever.  What a great Mercy from God ... because in this wicked, corrupt world, especially if you were to be born to and raised by parents who would think nothing of murdering you, your chances for salvation are slim to none anyway, so the less a chance people have of being saved, the more you'll see them being aborted and going to Limbo for eternity ... where they will praise God in perfect bliss for His Mercy through all eternity.
And to this last point I remember Fr. Wathen saying that had these aborted souls received baptism and gone on to lead adult lives, the vast majority of them would have been damned; it is a mercy, per se, that they were spared their adult lives in this Valley of Tears.  
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