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Author Topic: Continued in the Ghetto: Baptism of Desire and Bishop Williamson on the Newmass  (Read 1021 times)

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Offline X

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@X

You use irrelevant Catechisms and other irrelevant sources to attack Catholic Dogma.

You use irrelevant Catechisms and other irrelevant sources to attack the clear teaching of the sacred and holy, oecumenical and general Synod of Trent, lawfully assembled in the Holy Ghost. The highest authority on earth, the infallible Magisterium of the Church including the Vicar of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

You use irrelevant Catechisms and other irrelevant sources ignoring the prohibition of the said Council which is "most strictly forbidding that any henceforth presume to believe, preach, or teach, otherwise than as by this present decree is defined and declared."

Stop to believe and spread false teachings and errors.

Yes, yes:

The popes are irrelevant,

The ecumenical Council of Trent is irrelevant,

The saints are irrelevant,

The unanimity of theologians is irrelevant,

The catechisms are all irrelevant,

The doctors of the Church are irrelevant,

The only things which are relevant are the confused teachings of Fr. Feeney, and the sophisms he and his followers have constructed to prop them up.

Offline Struthio

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@X

I don't say that Feeney was right. I haven't read Feeney. Feeney is irrelevant.

Relevant is, what the holy and sacred Synod of Trent teaches.
It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896


Offline Struthio

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Yes, yes:

The popes are irrelevant

Yes! No pope can change decreed and defined dogma.


The saints are irrelevant

Yes! No saint can change decreed and defined dogma.


The unanimity of theologians is irrelevant

Yes! No consensus of theologians can change decreed and defined dogma.


The catechisms are all irrelevant

Yes! No catechism can change decreed and defined dogma.


The doctors of the Church are irrelevant

Yes! No doctor of the Church can change decreed and defined dogma.


The only things which are relevant are the confused teachings of Fr. Feeney, and the sophisms and heresies he and his followers have constructed to prop them up.

That is a strawman you built yourself. Fr. Feeney can not change decreed and defined dogma.
It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

Offline X

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@X

I don't say that Feeney was right. I haven't read Feeney. Feeney is irrelevant.

Relevant is, what the holy and sacred Synod of Trent teaches.

Man, Struthio:

If only you had lived 500 years ago, you could have kept:

-The popes from misunderstanding Trent

-The saints from misunderstanding Trent

-The unanimous consensus of approved pre-conciliar theologians from misunderstanding Trent

-The Doctors from misunderstanding Trent

-The unanimous content of the catechisms from misunderstanding Trent

Why did God let that happen??

Oh well, at least we have you to set things straight now.

Offline X

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Yes! No pope can change decreed and defined dogma.


Yes! No saint can change decreed and defined dogma.


Yes! No consensus of theologians can change decreed and defined dogma.


Yes! No catechism can change decreed and defined dogma.


Yes! No doctor of the Church can change decreed and defined dogma.


That is a strawman you built yourself. Fr. Feeney can not change decreed and defined dogma.

Rock on, brother!

I'm with you:

Sedevacante since 1700!    :o


Offline Struthio

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Man, Struthio:

If only you had lived 500 years ago, you could have kept:

-The popes from misunderstanding Trent

-The saints from misunderstanding Trent

-The unanimous consensus of approved pre-conciliar theologians from misunderstanding Trent

-The Doctors from misunderstanding Trent

-The unanimous content of the catechisms from misunderstanding Trent

Why did God let that happen??

Oh well, at least we have you to set things straight now.

That's useless polemic.

We must never use irrelevant fallible teachings to attack decreed and defined Catholic Dogma. We must not attack the Faith itself.
It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

Offline Struthio

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Rock on, brother!

I'm with you:

Sedevacante since 1700!    :o

Again, useless polemic.

We must never use irrelevant fallible teachings to attack decreed and defined Catholic Dogma. We must not attack the Faith itself.
It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

Offline X

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Again, useless polemic.

We must never use irrelevant fallible teachings to attack decreed and defined Catholic Dogma. We must not attack the Faith itself.

Yes, yes:

"useless" and "irrelevant."

Have a great day, and don't forget to be faithful to "the Dogma!"


Offline Struthio

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Have a great day, and don't forget to be faithful to "the Dogma!"

Thank you! Have a great day, too.

There is no Faith other than faithful to Catholic Dogma.

The catechumen asks for that Faith immediately before the sacrament of baptism. Receiving the sacrament then, faith, hope, and charity are infused into him. (see link above) That's the way how it works and noone is allowed to believe, preach, or teach otherwise.
It is absurd to imagine that he who is outside can command in the Church — Leo XIII., Satis Cognitum, 1896

Offline Last Tradhican

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Read Msgr. Joseph Clifford Fenton's The Catholic Church and Salvation that's what I am doing now.

It seems odd that people would attack Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre for his adherence to baptism of desire as if that meant he believed in universal salvation. The majority of his life as a missionary priest rejected such a notion.

The enemy is most certainly NOT Archbishop Lefebvre.
He gets criticized (not attacked) for his belief in salvation for those that have no desire for baptism, no desire to be a Catholic, no belief in the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity, in other words his belief in salvation by implicit faith, that believing in a God that rewards (implicit faith) is a substitute for the sacrament of baptism, and baptism of desire and baptism of blood. Not one saint ever taught salvation by implicit faith.
The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

Offline JPaul

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X,  Is that you Sean?...................you cannot help yourself, can you?


Offline JPaul

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In what manner will He "convict the world"? He will condemn the world, which means that He will condemn the ignorant and the unbelieving who continue unbelieving ... and who must die because of their offenses.
 St. Cyril of Alexandria
 
 He will convict the world of sin: that is, He will cut off all their excuses and show them that they have sinned in not believing.
 St. John Chrysostom
 
 What excuse shall he have, what mercy can he hope for, who corrupts the adorable and ineffable dogmas of our faith? This cannot be! It cannot, I say!
 St. John Chrysostom 

Offline Last Tradhican

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It was established in the other thread that implicit baptism of desire is de fide (Ott; Alphonsus; Trent)
Baptism of desire could mean anything today, the meaning has changed, like the word gay. Implicit Baptism of desire as used today is really something else, it is implicit faith.
To my knowledge OTT does not teach that implicit baptism of desire is defide. I have seen St. Alphonsus Ligouri teaching that baptism of desire is defide, however, he also teaches that at a minimum the person must believe in the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity (same as St. Thomas Aquinas). Anyone that believes in the Incarnation and the Holy Trinity, complicated subjects which are only learned by accepting  God's Grace, would surely also know about baptism and desire it too. Nevertheless, the fact that an OTT or even a saint opines that something is defide does not make it defide.

The debate in the other thread was about salvation for Hindus, Buddhist, Jews etc. by their belief in a God that rewards, which the writer SJ erroneously called implicit baptism of desire.
The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

Offline Last Tradhican

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Since Feeneyites and BOD deniers are excommunicated, they will have to found a new sect.
Unlike the SSPX which is separated from Rome, the direct spiritual descendants of Fr. Feeney are accepted by Rome and are in union with Rome. Excommunications come from Rome not individuals opinions.

One second on the internet should reveal the truth, even Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

After Feeney's death, his spiritual descendants soon split into several groups due to various power struggles. The two most prominent both use the name Saint Benedict Center.
Three of these groups exist on or near the land Feeney moved to in Still River, Massachusetts:



The other branch, located in Richmond, New Hampshire, has no official recognition from the Catholic Church.[6][7] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) classifies the center in Richmond, as well as the group's publishing arm Immaculate Heart Media, as an anti-Semitic hate group.[8][7] The SPLC wrote that the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary "continue to endorse Feeney and to defend him from charges of anti-Semitism, despite his well-documented hatred of the Jews" and noted that in 2004, Bishop McCormack had rebuked the group as "blatantly anti-Semitic," and that in 2005, a brother of the Slaves had given a speech calling out the "Jewish nation" as "the perpetual enemy of Christ."[8] The center denies being anti-Semitic.[9][7]
In the 1978, three sisters from Feeney's original group sought to become Benedictine nuns. Nuns from Stanbrook Abbey to help establish their priory, which was formally erected in 1984 as Saint Scholastica Priory.[10] The nuns were later joined by a group of Benedictine monks who were established as Saint Mary Monastery, a dependent house of Pluscarden Abbey.
The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

Offline Last Tradhican

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Unlike the SSPX which is separated from Rome, the direct spiritual descendants of Fr. Feeney are accepted by Rome and are in union with Rome. Excommunications come from Rome not individuals opinions.

One second on the internet should reveal the truth, even Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

After Feeney's death, his spiritual descendants soon split into several groups due to various power struggles. The two most prominent both use the name Saint Benedict Center.
Three of these groups exist on or near the land Feeney moved to in Still River, Massachusetts:



The other branch, located in Richmond, New Hampshire, has no official recognition from the Catholic Church.[6][7] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) classifies the center in Richmond, as well as the group's publishing arm Immaculate Heart Media, as an anti-Semitic hate group.[8][7] The SPLC wrote that the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary "continue to endorse Feeney and to defend him from charges of anti-Semitism, despite his well-documented hatred of the Jews" and noted that in 2004, Bishop McCormack had rebuked the group as "blatantly anti-Semitic," and that in 2005, a brother of the Slaves had given a speech calling out the "Jewish nation" as "the perpetual enemy of Christ."[8] The center denies being anti-Semitic.[9][7]
In the 1978, three sisters from Feeney's original group sought to become Benedictine nuns. Nuns from Stanbrook Abbey to help establish their priory, which was formally erected in 1984 as Saint Scholastica Priory.[10] The nuns were later joined by a group of Benedictine monks who were established as Saint Mary Monastery, a dependent house of Pluscarden Abbey.
The Wiki did not copy and paste above complete, here it is again:

After Feeney's death, his spiritual descendants soon split into several groups due to various power struggles. The two most prominent both use the name Saint Benedict Center.
Three of these groups exist on or near the land Feeney moved to in Still River, Massachusetts:

The other branch, located in Richmond, New Hampshire, has no official recognition from the Catholic Church.[6][7] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) classifies the center in Richmond, as well as the group's publishing arm Immaculate Heart Media, as an anti-Semitic hate group.[8][7] The SPLC wrote that the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary "continue to endorse Feeney and to defend him from charges of anti-Semitism, despite his well-documented hatred of the Jews" and noted that in 2004, Bishop McCormack had rebuked the group as "blatantly anti-Semitic," and that in 2005, a brother of the Slaves had given a speech calling out the "Jewish nation" as "the perpetual enemy of Christ."[8] The center denies being anti-Semitic.[9][7]
In the 1978, three sisters from Feeney's original group sought to become Benedictine nuns. Nuns from Stanbrook Abbey to help establish their priory, which was formally erected in 1984 as Saint Scholastica Priory.[10] The nuns were later joined by a group of Benedictine monks who were established as Saint Mary Monastery, a dependent house of Pluscarden Abbey.








The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

 

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