Yes sure. Trent could have been clearer. But still, Trent is univocal and leaves no way for anything but the sacrament of baptism, where supernatural faith is infused. Those who defend BoD and/or BoD lack sane reasoning. They construct a sufficent cause from a bare necessity.

Perhaps Trent could have been clearer, but I think Trent is plenty clear, certainly clear enough to debunk a BOD as is commonly understood - unless "or the desire thereof" is read entirely out of context of that canon, as well as read entirely out of context of the whole Council. Trent says many times that the Sacrament is absolutely necessary for salvation. I think if Trent would have explicitly condemned a BOD, like EENS, people would simply insist "that's not what it means" or "it must be understood as the Church understands it."

I find it somewhat amazing how Catholics cannot see how a BOD is the crack through which those outside the Church get into heaven. I also find it a bit incredible that those great saints even taught it, and really incredible that the saints who taught it, did not see how the whole idea is, or at least tends toward or lends itself, to insulting the Divine Providence.

Like its one thing to say theologians and catechisms aren't infallible, and can err.  Its another thing to essentially accuse them of abject stupidity.

One of the Church Fathers, (St Cyprian I believe?) was condemned for his error that heretics needed to be re-baptized after returning to the Faith.
St Augustine went back and forth on predestination and what it meant.  He also went back and forth on BOD.
St Thomas, a Doctor of the Church, was wrong on the Immaculate Conception (though it was more a lack of understanding of modern science, than a doctrinal error).
St Alphonsus is not immune from error, either.
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The difference between St Alphonsus and modern day BOD'ers is that St Alphonsus, even though he argued that BOD was "de fide", would readily cast aside his speculations if the Church had corrected him.  While most BOD'ers defend this idea as if it is "de fide" and admit no room for error.
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St Alphonsus died in 1787, at the beginning of the liberalization of the Church.  It's not surprising that his error was not corrected.

One of the Church Fathers, (St Cyprian I believe?) was condemned for his error that heretics needed to be re-baptized after returning to the Faith.
St Augustine went back and forth on predestination and what it meant.  He also went back and forth on BOD.
St Thomas, a Doctor of the Church, was wrong on the Immaculate Conception (though it was more a lack of understanding of modern science, than a doctrinal error).
St Alphonsus is not immune from error, either.
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The difference between St Alphonsus and modern day BOD'ers is that St Alphonsus, even though he argued that BOD was "de fide", would readily cast aside his speculations if the Church had corrected him.  While most BOD'ers defend this idea as if it is "de fide" and admit no room for error.
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St Alphonsus died in 1787, at the beginning of the liberalization of the Church.  It's not surprising that his error was not corrected.

I'd submit if the Church corrected me, though given that 99% of the hierarchy is well to the left of me, I don't see it happening any time soon.  I would like it if they did clear up the matter one way or another.

My point wasn't that St Alphonsus couldn't be wrong, just that he wouldn't miss something completely obvious like "one baptism" or some clear line in Trent that would clearly rule out his position.  And I think trying to pin him down on something that simple couldn't be correct.

Sean, ByzCat and I have had a great discussion.  It's not driven by mania, but by mutual understanding and a search for truth.  You check back every 40-50 pages because you can't control your emotions long enough to have a mature conversation.

Can someone make up a quiz we can take to know if we are Feeneyite or not? It might sound silly but I really wouldn't mind it. I can't follow all this. I need something straight forward! To the point.

How To Know You're a Feeneyite in 5 Questions or Less

Can someone make up a quiz we can take to know if we are Feeneyite or not? It might sound silly but I really wouldn't mind it. I can't follow all this. I need something straight forward! To the point.

How To Know You're a Feeneyite in 5 Questions or Less

“Question: Can Baptism of Desire save you?

Answer: Never.

Question: Could Baptism of Desire save you if you really believed it could?

Answer: It could not.

Question: Could it possibly suffice for you to pass into a state of justification?

Answer: It could.

Question: If you got into the state of justification with the aid of Baptism of Desire, and then failed to receive Baptism of Water, could you be saved?

Answer: Never

If a person agrees, hypothetically, that someone can be in a state of sanctifying grace from Baptism of Desire, die, and NOT be granted entry into Heaven because a lack of water Baptism, you follow after Fr. Feeney.

In my opinion, to die in the state of sanctifying grace presupposes having been granted the grace of final perseverance.

It's a mistake to call everyone that doesn't believe in Baptism of Desire a follower of Fr. Feeney; a Feeneyite.