Author Topic: Catholic (vs. Heretical) Baptism of Desire (Read 16310 times)

Alcuin · « **Reply #105 on:** August 17, 2014, 03:04:13 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

JPaul · « **Reply #106 on:** August 17, 2014, 11:39:12 AM »

Quote from: Alcuin

Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

And according the poster Ambrose, a heretic.

Ambrose · « **Reply #107 on:** August 17, 2014, 12:14:17 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

And according the poster Ambrose, a heretic.

Untrue.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #108 on:** August 17, 2014, 01:14:51 PM »

Quote from: Alcuin

Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

Maybe, just maybe, although I won't hold my breath, you could provide a reference for the statement, just once, pretty pretty please...

JPaul · « **Reply #109 on:** August 17, 2014, 01:51:23 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: J.Paul
Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

And according the poster Ambrose, a heretic.

Untrue.

By your own stated criteria, TRUE!

Ladislaus · « **Reply #110 on:** August 17, 2014, 01:59:07 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

Maybe, just maybe, although I won't hold my breath, you could provide a reference for the statement, just once, pretty pretty please...

That's been thoroughly docuмented on several threads here. Look it up. Even Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner, the biggest proponent of BoD, admitted that Augustine rejected the idea in the end.

http://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #111 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Rev. Anthony Cekada

"All Catholics are obliged to adhere to the common teaching on baptism of blood and baptism of desire. According to the norms outlined above, the Feeneyite position represents either theological error, error in Catholic doctrine or heresy."
"Those Catholics who adhere to the Feeneyite position on baptism of desire and baptism of blood commit a mortal sin against the faith."

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #112 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:14:47 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

Maybe, just maybe, although I won't hold my breath, you could provide a reference for the statement, just once, pretty pretty please...

That's been thoroughly docuмented on several threads here. Look it up. Even Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner, the biggest proponent of BoD, admitted that Augustine rejected the idea in the end.

http://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html

A Saint Benedict Center webpage publication is not a authoritative reference in even the wildest of imagination. Even further, there is a problem withthe webpage that is causing it to not display. Divine Intervention perhaps?

Stubborn · « **Reply #113 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:28:43 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

Maybe, just maybe, although I won't hold my breath, you could provide a reference for the statement, just once, pretty pretty please...

That's been thoroughly docuмented on several threads here. Look it up. Even Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner, the biggest proponent of BoD, admitted that Augustine rejected the idea in the end.

http://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html

A Saint Benedict Center webpage publication is not a authoritative reference in even the wildest of imagination. Even further, there is a problem withthe webpage that is causing it to not display. Divine Intervention perhaps?

Says you who posted a reference from Fr. Cekada LOL

Suffice to say that were Fr. Feeney alive today preaching the same EENS, you and Ambrose and LoE and all the NSAAers would be right there on the front line with every conciliar bishop, cardinal, priest and pope - as well as every newspaper and other jew run media, all seeking his extermination - most likely you would be amongst the loudest ones protesting against him.

I guess you should be proud.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #114 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:31:19 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: Rev. Anthony Cekada
"All Catholics are obliged to adhere to the common teaching on baptism of blood and baptism of desire. According to the norms outlined above, the Feeneyite position represents either theological error, error in Catholic doctrine or heresy."
"Those Catholics who adhere to the Feeneyite position on baptism of desire and baptism of blood commit a mortal sin against the faith."

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

I would urge all Feeneyites to read the above link. It is a complete defense of the Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood issue.

Additional information is available in Bishop Donald Sanborn's four part
Anti-Feeneyite Catechism available at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary website articles.

There is also an interesting exchange between a representative of the SBC and Rev. Anthony Cekada at
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=28&catname=2

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #115 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:35:38 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Rev. Anthony Cekada
"All Catholics are obliged to adhere to the common teaching on baptism of blood and baptism of desire. According to the norms outlined above, the Feeneyite position represents either theological error, error in Catholic doctrine or heresy."
"Those Catholics who adhere to the Feeneyite position on baptism of desire and baptism of blood commit a mortal sin against the faith."

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

I would urge all Feeneyites to read the above link. It is a complete defense of the Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood issue.

Additional information is available in Bishop Donald Sanborn's four part
Anti-Feeneyite Catechism available at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary website articles.

There is also an interesting exchange between a representative of the SBC and Rev. Anthony Cekada at
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=28&catname=2

Lets put this issue to rest so that we can get on with the more pressing matters of the day.

Ambrose · « **Reply #116 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:36:08 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Ambrose
Quote from: J.Paul
Quote from: Alcuin
Quote from: Ladislaus
St. Augustine rejected BoD later on.

A fact often overlooked by BoDers.

St. Augustine must have been a "Feeneyite" in the end!

And according the poster Ambrose, a heretic.

Untrue.

By your own stated criteria, TRUE!

False. I have never said such a thing nor will I. Your saying so does not make it true.

The Fathers held divergent views on many matters, but they were not heretics. Theology developed and the issues were resolved. Regarding St. Augustine, I remain unconvinced that he changed his opinion on Baptism of Desire.

Pope Innocent II cited St. Ambrose and St. Augustine as sources supporting Baptism of Desire:

Quote

Apostolicam:
To your inquiry we respond thus: We assert without hesitation (on the authority of the holy Fathers Augustine and Ambrose) that the priest whom you indicated (in your letter) had died without the water of baptism, because he persevered in the faith of Holy Mother the Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joy of the heavenly fatherland. Read (brother) in the eighth book of Augustine’s City of God where among other things it is written, “Baptism is ministered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion but death excludes.” Read again the book also of the blessed Ambrose concerning the death of Valentinian where he says the same thing. Therefore, to questions concerning the dead, you should hold the opinions of the learned Fathers, and in your church you should join in prayers and you should have sacrifices offered to God for the priest mentioned (Denzinger 388).

I will stay with the Pope's teaching over your source.

Stubborn · « **Reply #117 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:41:09 PM »

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Rev. Anthony Cekada
"All Catholics are obliged to adhere to the common teaching on baptism of blood and baptism of desire. According to the norms outlined above, the Feeneyite position represents either theological error, error in Catholic doctrine or heresy."
"Those Catholics who adhere to the Feeneyite position on baptism of desire and baptism of blood commit a mortal sin against the faith."

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

I would urge all Feeneyites to read the above link. It is a complete defense of the Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood issue.

Additional information is available in Bishop Donald Sanborn's four part
Anti-Feeneyite Catechism available at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary website articles.

There is also an interesting exchange between a representative of the SBC and Rev. Anthony Cekada at
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=28&catname=2

Lets put this issue to rest so that we can get on with the more pressing matters of the day.

FYI, that link is as big a lie as per usual - it's right up there with Myrna referencing Archbishop Cushing's condemnation of Fr. Feeney as though that crook was representative of the authority for Church teaching.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #118 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:42:44 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Rev. Anthony Cekada
"All Catholics are obliged to adhere to the common teaching on baptism of blood and baptism of desire. According to the norms outlined above, the Feeneyite position represents either theological error, error in Catholic doctrine or heresy."
"Those Catholics who adhere to the Feeneyite position on baptism of desire and baptism of blood commit a mortal sin against the faith."

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/BaptDes-Proofed.pdf

I would urge all Feeneyites to read the above link. It is a complete defense of the Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood issue.

Additional information is available in Bishop Donald Sanborn's four part
Anti-Feeneyite Catechism available at the Most Holy Trinity Seminary website articles.

There is also an interesting exchange between a representative of the SBC and Rev. Anthony Cekada at
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=28&catname=2

Lets put this issue to rest so that we can get on with the more pressing matters of the day.

FYI, that link is as big a lie as per usual ...

Perhaps you would grace us with a rebuttal to the specific points you dispute?

Stubborn · « **Reply #119 on:** August 17, 2014, 02:46:43 PM »

He references Tuas libenter, without even accepting the fact that if what he (Fr Cekada) were trying to push were accurate, there would never have been any need to the pope to write the letter in the first place.

That's only one of dozens of errors - - he and I went through this many years ago - he is as dishonest as any crook on the street IMO.