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Poll

Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?  (Read 18497 times)

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2017, 11:43:20 AM »
Too bad you are another professional dingbat who has nothing but his "wit" to contribute.  
I have wit! Hurray for me! I need to send this to my exes...

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2017, 11:46:58 AM »
Lover of Truth,

As I said in another thread, it is possible for a man to live his whole life without committing sin, since God does not command the impossible.

Are there any such men? Are there any "non-members" who are saved?

If the answer to the second question is like the answer to the first, no.

And why wouldn't the answer be like the first? Because God would be unjust? Because it wouldn't be "fair" to those who never heard the Gospel or had a chance at baptism?

Only to those who inordinately elevate the freedom of man (or misunderstand the nature of man with original sin) while also diminishing the role of God in an individual man's salvation.

The "very hairs of the elect" are all numbered. You can believe God numbers them as "non-members" of the Catholic Church and without baptism, but you're making a radical judgment about the nature of man, God and Providence/Predestination that "Feeneyites" or the rest of us don't accept, and none of your fallible authorities, even when considered on their own language and terms, require us to accept it. Certainly the Church doesn't.

Sorry, your crusade is a tilting at bogeymen of your own imagination.
Justification is a process.  Even the good-willed according to the Church, with implicit faith can gain actual grace that moves them to a supernatural faith and perfect charity putting them within the Church in a salvific way.  

I don't make any of it up.  

I made rather clear that the number of non-members within the Church are those who have not had the gospel preached to them, have not heard of the Catholic Church, have not looked into the Catholic Church through no fault of their own and failing all that they still need supernatural faith and perfect 
charity for faith to be possible. 

How many do you believe fit into that category?

  You can deny the teaching if you like but it is the teaching of the Church.  It is a given as Alphonsus pointed out above.  The quibble is if 2 or 4 things must be believed at a minimum and with what necessity.  If you do not accept this point your problem is not with me but with the Church.  


Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #152 on: August 25, 2017, 11:57:11 AM »
Have you read the quote from Alphonsus?

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #153 on: August 25, 2017, 11:58:20 AM »
Have you read the quote from Alphonsus?
Cornellius is an example and Saint Paul.  If either of them died before actually being baptized, supposing the other requirements were present they would have been saved.  

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #154 on: August 25, 2017, 12:04:38 PM »
Great point. I'd thumbs up you or whatever but I'm a newbie and evidently can't do that yet.
You need 25 rep first, just FYI. Here's a bump to send you on your way....