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Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?

Yes
No
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Author Topic: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?  (Read 18492 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #110 on: August 24, 2017, 11:33:56 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 23, 2017, 02:41:27 PM
Babies cannot be saved apart from sacramental Baptism.  Why is this distinction made?

It's a distinction made by BoDers like you.  It's not a proof but a distinction you make in order to force the rest of theology into compliance with your speculations.
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Offline Lover of Truth

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #111 on: August 24, 2017, 11:36:35 AM »
Some theologians hold that view at least in regard to those who lived in pagan lands where the Gospel had not yet been preached. 

St. Alphonsus held it as the "more probable" and "more common" opinion that belief in the Trinity is required by all by necessity of means for salvation. 

However, he explains all three opinions, i.e. 

1) that explicit belief in the Trinity is "necessitate medii" for all; 

2) that explicit belief is "necessitate medii" for all but in some rare cases God makes exception to this; 

3) that explicit belief in the Trinity is only "necessitate praecepti" and that only implicit belief in the Trinity is required "necessitate medii." 

He calls this third opinion (which he lists as the second) "also probable enough" and he quotes a number of eminent theologians who hold this opinion. Here is the passage in his works:

https://books.google.com/books?id=NR48AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA296
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #112 on: August 24, 2017, 11:37:45 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 23, 2017, 02:24:06 PM
You put words in my mouth because you cannot refute my truth.  Desperate tactic of one who does not want to admit the truth.  

Evidently you're incapable of following even your own logic.  I asked how, ontologically speaking, did Our Lord "open" the gates of heaven at His Ascension.  You stated that it was by removing Original Sin.

What you're saying, then, is that the OT just like St. Joseph and St. John the Baptist were still bound by Original Sin.  But they were also clearly in a state of justification.  So they were justified and in Original Sin at the same time ... according to YOUR logic.  Nobody's putting any words in your mouth.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #113 on: August 24, 2017, 11:41:06 AM »
Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 24, 2017, 11:36:35 AM
Some theologians hold that view at least in regard to those who lived in pagan lands where the Gospel had not yet been preached.

Nice try, but this doesn't pull your ass out of the fire.  You were deriding Stubborn for holding the opinion that explicit faith in the Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for salvation ... because your brilliance found an isolated out-of-context quote in Scripture that you interpreted to support Rewarder God theory.

Consequently, you were deriding St. Thomas.  But you have too much hubris to admit your fault.  Instead you'll go on trying to justify yourself.  You haven't an ounce of humility in you, LoT.  It's also the root cause of your dogmatic sedevacantism.  You are filled with hubris and lack any humility whatsoever.  You have never once retracted a statement or admitted fault in your entire history on CI.
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Offline Lover of Truth

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #114 on: August 24, 2017, 11:41:34 AM »
Quote
Such, however, has not been the case, and any system of thought which bases itself on such false assumptions is completely and fatally unrealistic. As a matter of fact, all mankind, all the progeny of Adam, absolutely needed the forgiveness of sin and the liberation which actually came only through the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ Our Lord. If man's sins had remained unforgiven by God, then man would have been justly and necessarily shut away from the Beatific Vision forever. If man's personal mortal sins had not been forgiven, man would have been justly and necessarily subject to everlasting punishment for those sins. Fenton

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