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Poll

Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?

Yes
No

Author Topic: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?  (Read 18496 times)

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #80 on: August 23, 2017, 12:54:14 PM »
That is the best thing to do when denying the truth.  Just make fun of the one who presents it.  Quite Catholic of you.   :applause:

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2017, 12:56:16 PM »
Ask St. Joseph and St. John the Baptist.  They were in a state of sanctifying grace but deprived of the beatific vision.

Define "can".  God CAN do anything He wants.

I answer this the same way that Father Feeney did, that we do not know what happens.  I am of the opinion that God will not let anyone die in this state ... justification without the Sacrament.  If He were to allow it, then they could end up in a limbo type of state, basically perfect natural happiness ... only without the beatific vision.
:facepalm: 
These guys truly have their own religion.  
Christ opened the Kingdom of Heaven to us at His Ascension.  Hello?


Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #82 on: August 23, 2017, 01:03:24 PM »
Which he then punctuates with emoti-MOCKERY.

People in ass houses…

"Stop hitting yourself!" *smack
That is the best thing to do when denying the truth.  Just make fun of the one who presents it.  Quite Catholic of you.   :applause:
"Quite heretic of you!"

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #83 on: August 23, 2017, 01:39:08 PM »
:facepalm:
These guys truly have their own religion.  
Christ opened the Kingdom of Heaven to us at His Ascension.  Hello?

Duh, but how?  What's the underlying ontology?  It wasn't a question of Our Lord opening some physical gate.  What does it mean to "open" heaven?  There's some ontological change in the souls that allowed them to enjoy the Beatific Vision.

Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #84 on: August 23, 2017, 01:41:55 PM »
The process of justification starts with faith, fearhope, etc.  It is completed when when one loves God with the love of friendship i.e. when he has obtained a supernatural charity.  This is when the sinner is transformed form the state of sin to that of justification or sanctifying grace. This process can be obtained without baptism when sacramental baptism is impossible such as when one, through no fault of his own, is not aware of the necessity of baptism.  

Babies cannot obtain sanctifying grace apart from baptism.  The implication is that adults can.

This is obtained by sacramental baptism or for those when sacramental baptism is impossible, through no fault of their own, the love God with a supernatural love which constitutes at least an implicit desire for the Sacrament.  

Thus the justified are not denied the beatific vision over a technicality.  

Water Baptism - Necessary with a relative necessity of means does not trump sanctifying grace, supernatural faith and charity, necessary with an absolute or intrinsic necessity.  For the Feeneyite the relative necessity trumps the absolute necessity faith.  How they get themselves in this hole with all the teachings to the contrary at their fingertips I do not know.  

God works spiritually.  He is not forced raise the dead and come down and physically baptize with water one who died without baptism.  This was obvious in better times.