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Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?

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Author Topic: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?  (Read 7142 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 11:52:42 AM
    Which you so carefully deliver in an info-dumpster.

    Fool me once… mea culpa.

    out.
    :confused:
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #31 on: August 22, 2017, 12:02:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 11:57:40 AM
    Another gem from Lover of Sophism…
    Another assertion from the asserter.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #32 on: August 22, 2017, 12:08:07 PM »
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    • To mitigate this sort of folly, one could read the following:
    1. "Spiritual Reading for Every Day"( le Masson)
    2. "Christian Philosophy" (de Poissey/ Xtian Schools Brothers)

    Both FREE f/ archive.org

    Willing to be an aCcountability/swim/dive/battle bud 4 ea.
    Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 11:49:46 AM
    Or
    Refute the following:

    Feeney believed that one could be justified and not saved.  One who dies justified dies in a state of sanctifying grace and there is no possible eternal abode for him but heaven.  The Feeneyites deny this.  The feeneyites are wrong.  Other lay modernist feeneyites deny Feeney's teach above and claim that Trent itself was wrong . . .  er a . . . taught the opposite of what it taught.  They lose either way. 
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 12:10:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 12:08:07 PM
    To mitigate this sort of folly, one could read the following:
    1. "Spiritual Reading for Every Day"( le Masson)
    2. "Christian Philosophy" (de Poissey/ Xtian Schools Brothers)

    Both FREE f/ archive.org

    Willing to be an aCcountability/swim/dive/battle bud 4 ea.
    Do you deny that Feeney taught would who died justified apart from sacramental baptism could not be saved?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 12:23:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 07:03:08 AM
    How can one who dies justified not be saved?
    Here's to beating a dead horse.......Justification alone is insufficient for salvation.

    Decree on the sacraments:

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #35 on: August 22, 2017, 12:28:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 22, 2017, 12:23:04 PM
    Here's to beating a dead horse.......Justification alone is insufficient for salvation.

    Decree on the sacraments:

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.
    That is Feeney teaching.  The Dimonds teach the contrary and have to claim that Trent did not teach what it taught to get around it.  Both get around the truth in different ways.  Feeney was wrong.  The Dimonds are wrong.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #36 on: August 22, 2017, 01:00:53 PM »
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    • No no. Just to be crystal,  it's big boy /accountability time yesterday.

    I opened the door, and put out my hand, and you slammed the port shut.

    Unless and until you amend, feel free to shut your virtual mouth when you're talking to me.

    Addressing your post, such as they are,  is in no way an evite to tea.

    out.
    Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 12:10:43 PM
    Do you deny that Feeney taught would who died justified apart from sacramental baptism could not be saved?
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #37 on: August 22, 2017, 01:03:33 PM »
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    • Train wreck
    Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 12:28:34 PM
    That is Feeney teaching.  The Dimonds teach the contrary and have to claim that Trent did not teach what it taught to get around it.  Both get around the truth in different ways.  Feeney was wrong.  The Dimonds are wrong.
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #38 on: August 22, 2017, 01:07:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 01:00:53 PM
    No no. Just to be crystal,  it's big boy /accountability time yesterday.

    I opened the door, and put out my hand, and you slammed the port shut.

    Unless and until you amend, feel free to shut your virtual mouth when you're talking to me.

    Addressing your post, such as they are,  is in no way an evite to tea.

    out.
    I must have missed something.  I would like to get in a good discussion with you.  You have to do it one step at a time with me without imply I get my theology from V2 or anything similar.  I'm quote willing to discuss your thoughts if it can be civil and no accusatory.  Simply sticking to the issue without making it personal.  This should be second hand among traditional Catholics but we can be the worst sometimes.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 01:10:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 01:03:33 PM
    Train wreck
    It is a train wreck.  I feel sorry for them, and their followers.  But especially them as each person that goes to hell because of them will increase their sorrow if they are in or go to Hell or in Purgatory if they are so fortunate.  But this would mean their ignorance which they prefer to imagine does not mitigate actually help those who condemn ignorance as something impossible or meaningless, not taken into account by God despite the lack of culpability.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 01:27:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 11:18:16 AM
    Wrong again professional dingbat.  
    Feeney believed that one could be justified and not saved.  One who dies justified dies in a state of sanctifying grace and there is no possible eternal abode for him but heaven.  The Feeneyites deny this.  The feeneyites are wrong.  Other lay modernist feeneyites deny Feeney's teach above and claim that Trent itself was wrong . . .  er a . . . taught the opposite of what it taught.  They lose either way.  

    You're so mentally incompetent that you don't even know you're wrong.  I understand very well that Father Feeney distinguishes justification vs. salvation.  But your idiotic question is distinguishing justification vs. sanctifying grace.  Two different distinctions, moran.  Father Feeney did not say that someone who was justified was not in a state of sanctifying grace.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 01:42:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 22, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
    You're so mentally incompetent that you don't even know you're wrong.  I understand very well that Father Feeney distinguishes justification vs. salvation.  But your idiotic question is distinguishing justification vs. sanctifying grace.  Two different distinctions, moran.  Father Feeney did not say that someone who was justified was not in a state of sanctifying grace.
    I admit that I am not as competent at you with the vitriol.  

    Quote
    It is now: Baptism of Water, or damnation! If you do not desire that Water, you cannot be justified. And if you do not get it, you cannot be saved.
    Does that sound familiar to you?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 02:20:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 01:42:07 PM
      
    Does that sound familiar to you?

    Again, wrong distinction, twit.
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    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #43 on: August 22, 2017, 02:26:38 PM »
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    • Quote
    Quote
    It is now: Baptism of Water, or damnation! If you do not desire that Water, you cannot be justified. And if you do not get it, you cannot be saved.
    [size={defaultattr}]
    Does that sound familiar to you?

    That was the question.  How is the question wrong?[/size]
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Can one be Justified and not be in a state of Sanctifying Grace?
    « Reply #44 on: August 22, 2017, 02:32:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 12:28:34 PM
    That is Feeney teaching.  The Dimonds teach the contrary and have to claim that Trent did not teach what it taught to get around it.  Both get around the truth in different ways.  Feeney was wrong.  The Dimonds are wrong.
    Well yes, that is  what Fr. Feeney taught. He taught that because that is the actual canon from Trent - what would you expect him to teach, that the sacrament is optional? Of course not.

    You asked the question, I gave you Trent's answer, you say Trent is wrong. Same o same o.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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